So I have been reading here for months and it seems like most members have frequent and intense hot flashes, both day and night, along with night sweats that wake them and have them covering, uncovering, etc. all night long. There can be no doubt that these women are perimenopausal and being taken for a ride by their hormones.

But what if you have hardly any hot flashes at all. I have essentially none during the day, and zero to two or three mild ones during the night. What I do have is terrible insomnia, anxiety and muscle tension that never lets up, along with frequently sore and achy muscles, and even a few slightly sore tendons.

I am having such a hard time believing this is related to hormones and menopause. I haven't had a period since late Nov or more than 7 months, my FSH was 63 in January, my ovaries have clearly shut down, what could still be fluctuating?

Most days I think I just have a major anxiety problem leading to insomnia and muscle tension, in turn leading to sore achy muscles. Other days, based on a succession of bizarre neurological symptoms I had for a couple of months this past spring , I think I have something more sinister. I did do three months of antibiotics for possible lyme.

So is the presence of hot flashes, in particular frequent and intense ones, the litmus test for real perimenopause? Hot flashes are certainly just about the first symptom that comes to mind for most people in connection with menopause.

Are there many women here who don't get terrible hot flashes but still believe their troubles are hormone-related? I would really love to hear about you.

Hi Terribletoodle,

When I began perimenopause in my late 40s, I didn't have hot flashes, though I had a few night sweats -- not too many though. But I had terrible anxiety and depression like so many women at Power Surge, along with other symptoms (which seemed minor compared to the anxiety and depression). When I turned 50, the anxiety and depression lessened, so much so that I could function somewhat normally at least! However, hot flashes started, and they've been on and off for months at a time. I'm 52 now, and am in an intense hot flash time.

I don't think hot flashes are a litmus test for perimenopause. I just think it's a dramatic symptom and is played up, so much so that most people think "hot flash" when they hear the word menopause. And -- I read that not all women get them. Be thankful that you don't have them! They're miserable!

I'm just beginning to have troubles with insomnia. What do you take for it? Lately I've been taking a valerian capsule right before bedtime and it's worked great. I just get up once to go to the bathroom, around 3am, then I generally fall back asleep pretty quickly. About your sore, achy muscles -- would that be due to lyme disease, since you mentioned taking antibiotics for three months? (Of course, I can understand that anxiety can lead to insomnia and muscle problems, as you indicated.) Lyme disease is something I'm a bit fearful of, as I live in the country, and, unfortunately have numerous encounters with ticks. Oh, how I hate those things!!

RedFox

Actually, last summer for two months, I did have frequent hot flashes both day and night, fairly intense, but no night sweats. And then they disappeared completely for a few months and have been back in a very mild form since perhaps Feb.


For sleep I have tried just about everything. And I do mean everything except prescription meds which I cannot handle.

Passionflower - sometimes helps and often doesn't
l-tryptophan
melatonin
chamomile tea
benadryl - sometimes works and sometimes doesn't

(I never use either benadryl or passionflower more than twice a week so they won't poop out on me completely)

relaxation Cds
sleep hypnosis CDs
CDs with binaural beats that are supposed to entrain your brain waves to the low frequency characteristic of sleep - just downloaded a new one today from a site called Audio Noesis that I learned about right here on P-S and will be trying it tonight.

daily exercise - I walk at least three miles

listening to a book on CD such as "Don't Know Much About History", interesting but totally non-stimulating

counting backwards from 200 by 3's or doing other mental gymnastics

breathing exercises

visualizing a single non-stimulating object - my husband claims visualizing a candle flame works for him. Not for me so far.

counting sheep jumping over a fence - an old stand-by

AND MY LATEST: the GloToSleep Mask, a foam mask with phosphor stripes on the inside activated (they glow with a soft blue light) by exposure to a light source. You put the mask on and focus on a glowing stripe, ideally the highest one. This is supposed to quiet the mind and send you off to sleep. It really should work and I believe the people who say it has for them (Google Glo To Sleep), but I must have some kind of internal block. I have tried it for two nights but it creates some eye strain and all I want to do is close them, but I don't fall asleep. But will try again tonight.

I have hesitated to use valerian myself because I had a nasty time getting off ativan that I took briefly last year, and valerian is too similar in its mode of action. It attaches to the same receptors as all the benzodiazepenes like xanax, valium, klonopin, ativan.

So this is me most of the time:

The next thing i am trying is some bioidentical estrogen, specifically estrogel. I read Dr. Vliet's book and she says estrogen depletion can cause insomnia. My family doctor had no problem with me trying this. The estrogel should be in my hands Friday. We'll see ... If it helps, of course I will have to add in progesterone within a few weeks.

As for the muscle aches and lyme, lyme is better known for causing joint pain which I haven't had. Actually, insomnia is also listed as a symptom. But it was more the weird neuro stuff that made me explore the possibility of lyme. Lyme can cause muscle cramping and spasms. So can other conditions. I don't exactly have either cramping or spasms, just relentless excess tension, especially in the trapezius muscle that covers much of the upper back and in the legs and often buttocks.

Muscle tension is a pretty non-specific symptom - and also very much a symptom of prolonged stress and/or anxiety, both of which I have had. For that matter, so are various neruological symptoms like tingling, burning. I occasionally visit a website for people wishing to recover from anxiety conditions without meds, and just about everyone there at one time or another is sure they have MS, ALS or similar due to the burning, numbness and tingling they have experienced.

I agree, ticks are nasty. If you live in an area with high numbers, you need to be vigilant. These days, I always check myself after possible exposure. A full length mirror combined with a handheld mirror to allow you to check your back is a big help.


TT

Wow, TT, you have indeed tried just about everything imaginable for insomnia! I feel so badly for you, having this problem. Mine is very minor compared to what you're going through. I do hope the bioidentical estrogen work for you. I have read, as I'm sure you have, many success stories here on PS from those who try hormones.

Your hot flashes sound like mine. They seem to enjoy taunting me in the summer, then quiet down in the winter. I've noticed the same pattern with lots of women here. Really makes one look forward to the dog days of summer! Not!

It kind of does sound like your muscle aches may be as a result of hormonal changes, including stress, rather than Lyme disease. Sure hope so anyway. Yes, we do tick checks regularly around here. This year is a pretty bad year, probably because our winter was so mild. Back to muscle aches, I've been really achy myself during the last year, as well as dealing with some sciatic pain. I've discovered the more active I am with exercise and lots of stretching, the more relief I find. I've also been reading up on trigger points and self massage, which has proven very useful. I have a few regular spots in my legs where there is muscle tension, and when I massage them, the pain is virtually eliminated and stays gone for several hours.

Geez, it's hell getting old!!!