If someone can enlighten me, I'd be sooo grateful.  Post-meno 1 year and only real symptom anymore isvaginal dryness controlled with Estrace.   Also taking vitamins and calcium supplements plus  a little l-arginine for the libido.  But are there other health-related reasons I should be taking estrogen, phytoestrogens or progesterone?  I only see discussions about controlling symptoms, not long-term health.  Looking for answers from you smart ladies.

Kimber

There aren't any good reasons to stay on HRT, as far as I can tell, only reasons to get off.  

In July, 2002, the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) abruptly halted its study of HRT because they determined that Prempro, the drug used in the study, could increase a woman's risk of coronary heart disease, stroke and breast cancer. In short, the risks were greater than the benefits.

Just a day or so ago, I posted this:  Study: Use Hormones for Menopause Only

By DANIEL Q. HANEY .c The Associated Press

BOSTON (AP) - Hormone replacement pills should not be used for any reason other than as brief treatment to help women through the worst symptoms of menopause, new research concludes.

Last year, a large study found that the widely used estrogen and progestin combinations are bad for women's physical health. Now, data from the same study suggest they do nothing for their memory, sleeping or mental outlook, either.

"There is no place for this treatment in women who are not having hot flashes. That simplifies matters a lot," said Dr. Deborah Grady of the University of California, San Francisco, who was not involved in the study.

Though many women well past the hot flash stage believe the pills make them feel better, the new research concludes this is probably nothing more than a placebo effect.

"The average woman will not experience an improvement in her quality of life by taking this pill," said Jennifer Hays of Baylor College of Medicine, a psychologist who directed the analysis.

The results released Monday are another impressive reversal for what, until recently, was one of the most universally accepted treatments in medicine. Women typically begin taking combinations of estrogen and progestin to ease hot flashes and other miseries of menopause. But many keep taking them, often into their 60s and 70s, believing the drugs are good for their health and well-being.

Last year, however, data from the same study found the pills do more physical harm than good. While hormone replacement decreases hip fractures and colon cancer, it slightly increases the chance of heart attacks, strokes and breast cancer.

Despite those findings, many women vowed to stick with hormone replacement because they felt it helped their memory and mood and made them think and feel better. But the new report says hormone replacement does not have such effects.

"There is a myth that hormone therapy improves quality of life, even in women without menopausal symptoms. This study dispels the myth," said Dr. JoAnn Manson of Harvard's Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

Experts now say the hormones' only acceptable use is for the short-term relief of severe menopausal symptoms. For otherwise healthy women in their early 50s, the risks of this treatment are small and the benefits worthwhile. Last week, the Food and Drug Administration approved a new low-dose variety but urged that it be taken only for the shortest possible duration.

The latest data are from the Women's Health Initiative, a federally sponsored study of 16,608 postmenopausal women ages 50 to 79. They were randomly given Prempro or dummy pills, and researchers followed them for an average of five years.

The results will be published in the May 8 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine. Because of their importance, the journal posted them Monday on its Internet site.

The study found no meaningful effects of the pills on women's physical or emotional health, pain, energy levels, memory, sleeping or sexual satisfaction, among other things.

"It's a reassuring message," Hays said. "If women stopped taking hormones because they heard about the health risks, they are not missing anything. The differences we found were so small that they would not be noticed by the average woman."

Most of the women in the study were well past the age of hot flashes, but for those still having menopausal symptoms, the study confirmed that estrogen is effective. So were dummy pills, however.

After a year of treatment, three-quarters of those younger women on Prempro had fewer hot flashes, as did half of the ones on placebos. However, the researchers cautioned that women with the most severe symptoms probably did not volunteer for the study and risk being put on sugar pills.

Hays said many women in the study, convinced they were receiving estrogen and benefiting from it, were upset when the study ended earlier than planned. However, when doctors broke the codes and sorted out who was taking what, they found that these women often were on placeboes.

"The mind is very powerful," she said. "They were taking a sugar pill and feeling great."

Hays acknowledged, however, that hormones may still have benefits that some women find important, such as a sense that the drugs improve the appearance of their skin or hair.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Medical Editor Daniel Q. Haney is a special correspondent for The Associated Press.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you'll read more of this board, you'll see several news items over the past few years that say that HRT doesn't help anything, as was once thought.

Soy (phytoestrogens) does have other benefits, not specifically related to menopause:  lowering cholesterol, protection against cellular damage, doctors have discovered in Asian countries like Japan, where the traditional diet is high in soy protein, very few women complain about menopausal symptoms (only 9% of Japanese women complain about hot flashes!), younger women have fewer menstrual periods per year and occurrences of some cancers (breast and endometrial), heart disease and other chronic diseases are very low. Medical studies have shown that soy protein has many beneficial interactions with a variety of human tissues and are the primary reason for many of these findings.  

Soy is also used for breast cancer patients, and people with thyroid disease.  Some people have used soy to help control migraines, and it helps protect men against prostate cancer.

From THE MANY HEALTH BENEFITS OF SOY by Julia Elliot:

Interest in soyfoods continues to increase, in part because of new research findings that indicate soyfoods may provide even more health benefits than previously thought. Mark Messina, PhD, former researcher for the National Cancer Institute, noted that scientists have discovered that a soy component called isoflavones which appears to reduce the risk of cancer, as related to hormone-dependent cancers ("Good Food, Good Health," Better Homes & Gardens, Oct. 96). It appears that as little as one serving of soyfoods per day may be enough to obtain the benefits of this anti-cancer phytochemical.

Soyfoods are found to provide protection against:

• Heart disease
• Cancer,
• Menopausal symptoms and
• Other chronic diseases

Scientists in Brussells shared the latest data in ongoing research related to soy and heart disease and cancer, and also provided unpublished data on new areas of research, like kidney and bone disease, and menopause symptom management. You can find the studies pertaining to this at Second International Symposium On The Role of... The "Baby Boomers" are a large chunk of today's population. This is a generation that seeks the "natural way."

They have seen the effects of prescribed medications and have decided to find a better way. Many people have turned to the alternatives for their health needs. This is where soy enters the picture. Consider the following:

Soy contains a protein that may help lower cholesterol levels. For every point you reduce your cholesterol, you reduce your risk of heart disease by two points. The genestein found in the soy protein helps to stabilize your blood vessels by keeping arterial plaque from building up. Compared to taking cholesterol medications which have side effects and can damage the liver, soy is a much better way.

The genistein in soy has properties which can help prevent some hormone-dependent cancers, such as breast cancer, uterine, endometrial and prostrate cancer. The phytoestrogen (plant form of estrogen found in soy) can block the cancer-causing effects of estrogen. It is believed that the properties in soy might cause changes at the cellular level that discourage cancer cell growth (Stephen Barnes, Univ. of Alabama).

Post-menopausal women who were fed soy for six months showed an increase in bone mass by 2.2 percent. The amount ingested was 90 mg of isoflavones daily, equal to about 1 cup of cooked soybeans per day. Even the elderly can improve bone health by eating soy. And it's an inexpensive way to protect yourself against brittle bones. Soybeans sell in most health food stores for about 85 cents per pound; a pound of soybeans being approximately a week's supply.

Menopausal women have found that soy is a good natural way to balance and restore their estrogen. Synthetic Hormone Replacement carries with it the risk of cancer, water retention, weight gain, and vascular problems, not to mention that some of these preparations are derived from pregnant mare urine -- no wonder there are side effects associated. Soy can give nearly the same benefits as a synthetic hormone, but without the side effects and the cancer risks.

Soy, when used as a natural hormone replacement therapy at menopause, protects naturally. It removes the risk of cancer because it has the ability to act as an anti-estrogen when not needed and a pro-estrogen when needed. The phytoestrogen is found in many foods, mainly fresh fruits and vegetables, but the highest concentration is found in soy. Women have successfully used soy as an alternative for this purpose for years.

I hope this gets you started, Kimber

Hi MaryO!!

I really do like reading about all of this!   My doctor gave me this article and it has a weblink and I was wondering if you could do like you did before and see if you could get it online here?  It is interesting to look at the different opinions. Of course I'm not supposed to be in menopause yet  but well I am and what can I say?  I can't do anything to change it.  I don't know if you have any women who are younger than 45 (or my doctor says the usual age of menopause is 51).

Anyway, I think I'll try putting the weblink here and I wanted to ask you if you would have the article like you had the other ones?  Thanx!!:biggrin:

(Wish me luck here) http://www.nurselinx.com/thearts.cfm?artid...esLet me know if that doesn't work I didn't think that you guys wanted me to put anything in.  (It for sure doesn't sell anything and is from a doctor.  (I sure don't want to break your rules.  I'm sorry that I"m different but I don't seem to fit in anywhere.)  I'd like to use that but my doctor says that I have to wait until I'm older so that my bones and my heart are protected.  Boy do I know what you mean about not taking medicines when I'm 50.  

I'm sad becuase I wish I didn't have to deal with this and the other post about early menopause has a lock on it. I'm still looking for some things that will apply to someone younger like me.

Hey thanks MaryO !!  (I'm sorry if I'm not doing this all right.  I went to this place a while ago when my doctor first said I might have problems but it has been a while and I'm now trying to learn more.

I hope that you are doing and feeling well.  Do you still play the piano?  My mom passed away a few months ago and when I play the piano I think of her.  I love the piano.

Bye and have a good day

Greenchili,<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Perimenopause, otherwise known as &quot;going<br>through menopause,&quot; can take a decade.<br>Therefore, many of the symptoms can most<br>certainly occur in one's forties. &nbsp;I can trace the<br>beginnings of the transition to PMS from hell at<br>42. &nbsp;&quot;By usual age of 51, &quot; I take that to mean no<br>bleeding for one year. &nbsp;My sister had the worse<br>symptoms in her mid-forties, and at 52, she feels<br>great without hormones. &nbsp;During the transition,<br>she used low dose oral contraceptives. &nbsp;The pill<br>makes me a sobbing basket case, but that's <br>another story.<p>Mary,<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The placebo effect is powerful!!! &nbsp;<br>

&nbsp; &nbsp; The soy gives me such intense gas pains, I've<br>been literally doubled over from it.<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;My oldest sister used premarin for a decade,<br>stopping at 57. &nbsp;Except for initial withdrawal, (tapering<br>the dose of any drug used regularly is wise,) she<br>feels fine now. &nbsp;<br> &nbsp;

Oh Hi Chris and thanks for answering!

Yes the obgyn.net article says menopause average at 51 - not perimnopuase so yes you are right!

To tell you the truth the soy here also gives me bad gas and yes!!! it hurts. (It is kind of embarrasing and I don't mean it as a mean thing for the people here who it works for!!)   I tried some before I started my estrogen patch.  Oh I'm not perimenopause now.   I started getting night sweats and all the other symptoms a couple years before.  at 36, my ovaries no longer produced any estrogen or testosterone at all.  well very little.    So when this happens with women under 40 (or maybe 45) they only make you go 6 months before not having a bleed before saying that your postmenopause.  I know its confusing- it sure is to me since really everything is written about women who are at least over 45 with perimenopause starting (or around that age since we are all different).

It is a funny thing.  I never wanted to take premarin and the only doctor who suggested it to me was the youngest woman that I saw. She was even younger than I was at the time (I was 36 and I think she was in her early 30s).  My doctors office both my obgyn and my gp (different offices) both use estradiol not premarin for the estrogen for their patients.   At first when my period wasn't coming (and I wasn't pregnant) my doctor had me take Provera to bring on a period.  That stuff makes you crazy!!!  (sorry if anyone here does ok on it I just didn't.)  But that's ok since I now use  progesterone and that doesn't make me feel crazy.

But it is kind of scary since for women under 40 with no estrogen (I guess that would be the case for hysterectomys too) it seems to be a different book of rules than for older women.  There are articles and research that there is a bigger case of heart disease and osteoporosis (LOL - I hate spelling that word!).

That is why I'm on the estrogen patch.  Actually I feel very good - thank goodness.  Are you feeling pretty good too?  I hope so.  The best thing for me before I started the estrogen was flaxseed (which didn't give me gas :biggrin:) and primrose oil.

I hope I'm not offending anyone here by being younger. I am kind of tired of going through all of this alone and I guess that even, being younger in menopause there just aren't that many others.  I don't mean to offend anyone -- really!

Theres so much in magazines and on websites that say DON"T TAKE ESTROGEN ANYMORE and well thankfully I didn't have breast cancer because even young women who've had that probably shouldn't take estrogen.  But for the rest of us, It seems to be a different story. My doctor says that as long as I keep in good shape and health that I iwll be more like a normal menopause woman but not until I'm in my middle 50's.  I don't know.  Maybe I will quit the hormones.  I kind of try not to think of it right now.  LOL - I can't make the years go faster!

Take care and I hope that you are feeling ok!!Thanks again for writing

Greenchili,<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; You may want to do a web search on premature<br>menopause. &nbsp;It's seems in my travels on the<br>internet, I stumbled upon a message board before.<br>I'm not offended by your youth!! &nbsp;Yes, provera<br>was likely the culprit in the birth control bill that<br>made me wacky. &nbsp;Good luck in your research.

ChrisCarol,Thank you for answering!  And thank you for being so nice.    I very much appreciate it and thank you.  When my doctor first told me that I was in early menopause (and I was only 36), I asked one of my neighbors about how she was dealing with menopause.  Oh my goodness but she got mad at me!  Of course everyone likes their privacy and I can understand that but it has made me kind of afraid to ask anybody.  Sure enough nobody that I know who is around my age is going through this.  My neighbor said "I wish that women whould quit whininging about the change of life"  I toughed it out and so can any one else.  They are just feeling sorry for themselves."  Yikes but wow, I sure didn't ask her (or anyone else) again.That is why I'm still kind of hesitant to ask anyone about all of this (since I haven't found anyone else who is my age)  LOL I just thought that heck, you guys don't know how old I am unless I tell you.    I guess that age doesn't matter that much and it does help to know that there are other women out there who are going through the same kind of stuff that I am so it does make me feel a bit better that I'm not alone and all that.  

But enough about me, you've been so very nice to me ChrisCarol.

Are you feeling ok?   It is important to let yourself feel good, quality of life is very important.  I think that I said taht I had cancer 10 years ago and I still see an oncologist once a year.  I'm cured now but this is just a safety thing that I see him for.  Since I've had the hormone problems (ha! lol) I've asked him how he feels about estrogen.  He is a very good oncologist in Newport Beach and is doing a lot of breast cancer research with vaccines and all.  Anyway, he is a very good man and has a wife and family.  He feels that quality of life is very important and doesn't only close his mind to estrogen for women with breast cancer if they are having a hard time living their lives.  Of course, he doesn't use premarin or the dreaded Provera but uses the bioidentical prescriptions.

I guess that what I am saying is that if you are having a hard time with living your life with your hormones being all bonkers, please don't feel bad about using bioidentical hormones.  It might take a while to find a good doctor.  I guess that since I had cancer (and I don't mean to get special treatment just becuase I went through this) I am now very picky about the doctors that I see more than once.

Are you doing ok as far as the hot flashes and moods and all of that other wonderful(not!) stuff?  

I'm very lucky to have some good doctors who aren't afraid of practicing good medicine, even with that Prempro study that came out.  I really do believe in checking things out.

I actually talked to my compounding pharmacist today.  He is a good man and I was picking up my prescription.  I have a science degree and I know enough to know that something isn't quite right about that WHI study.   I do know that most doctors are afraid of possible lawsuits since things are so up in the air.  

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say except that it IS your body and you do deserve to feel good.  yes of course there are thing that aren't hormones that can help but if your body seems to need hormones please don't feel guilty about using them.  I know that this isn't ever a permanent decision.

My sister (younger and not in meno or even perimeno yet) just started back on the bc pill but the first one made her crazy.  The next one she tried wasn't as bad.   (Yasmin maybe I think)  did you know that there is a birth control patch?  wow!  (I love my estrogen patch).

Anyway, I won't keep you any longer.  thank you so much for answering my posts.  I very much appreciate it.  I wish you the best of health and the best of feeling good.  Yes some women might do just fine with nothing in menopause but if you are one who doesn't feel well you shouldn't be made to feel bad.  

thank you again and I hope to hear from you.

Take care!

Hi guys--thought I'd jump in.  I've posted on other boards but no responses for weeks.  I'm 51 and hopefully I'm completing that first year without a period so that I can officially say I'm post meno.  My hot flashes are so bad that I get dizzy and have waves of nausea.  I have to sit down and stay quiet when I get "torpedoed" like that, or I feel like I'll either faint or throw up.  Last summer I finally tried Activella tablets because I felt horrible all the time, like I had the flu, aching, headaches, and torpedo hot flashes.  I was losing my temper at every little thing, even in public if I had to wait in line or got stuck in traffic or any routine thing.  

I felt much better on Activella, but after taking one every day, I had a period!!  I had been without one for ten months and was I ever upset to get it when I had hoped they were over!  

So I cut down one day a week on Activella.  I skipped taking one on Wednesdays, and I waited to see what would happen.  Nothing happened.  I still felt great.  A month or so later, I tried skipping two days a week.  Nothing happened again; felt fine.  So a few months ago, I started taking one every other day.  And I had a few symptoms come back, but still not like last summer before I started the HRT.  

I take soy every day.  It's that Revival soy--I try to eat a peanut butter chocolate bar every day (I love them!!)  I guess I thought that when my HRT runs out and my doctor says I can't have any more, I'll still have the soy.  

Only problem is, I don't know now what's working and what isn't.  Is it still the HRT or is it the soy?  I guess the way to find out would be to stop one or the other, but I just can't do it yet.  

Well, hope to hear from you.  

This sounds like what I did - on purpose.  I knew I was going off HRT about the same time I heard about Revival an AOL Power Surge and decided to give it a try.  I weaned off the HRT while drinking Revival every day.  Actually, I got off the HRT a little faster than I'd planned.

My symptoms never came back, and I continued feeling better.  I hope that the same applies to you, too, CSugarGrove.  Best of luck to you!

Greenchili,<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; Don't feel guilty about using anything that<br>makes you feel better. &nbsp;The guilt is as oppressive,<br>as the old school, &quot;it's all in your head, dear.&quot;<br>Many studies tend to flip, flop, confusing the heck<br>out of me. &nbsp;<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; Asking people about their menopause can<br>surely backfire. &nbsp;People in my mom's generation<br>act like it was a piece of cake. &nbsp;DENIAL?? &nbsp;I've also<br>heard, &quot;Well, I was fine,&quot; then while bringing up<br>the subject of mood swings, telling me, &nbsp;Well, I<br>did cry alot.&quot; &nbsp; Hormones highlight emotional<br>sensitivities, which could be your neighbor's<br>problem. <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm glad your cancer is in remission. &nbsp;I'm<br>very sensitive, and wonder where I'd ever find the<br>strength to handle something so life threatening.<br>

Chriscarol, you are so right about people in your mom's generation acting like it is a piece of cake.  It's anything but!  I don't think I've gone through anything this bad emotionally or physically for this long.  (Maybe I should feel lucky about that, huh?)  But when I asked my mom about menopause, she just shrugged and said she'd had some hot flashes and that was about it.  

There sometimes seems to be no limit to all of the physical and emotional issues you have to deal with.  I'm glad I've had continued access to the PowerSurge website, because I found out that a lot of the strange things that happened to me were being experienced by a lot of other women, and they would often explain why, so it kept me from going insane, basically.  

I've read before that women who get through it tend to downplay it later on.  I wonder if that's because it's behind them and they have started to forget how bad it was.  Or maybe once they get through it, it's easier to pretend it was nothing.  I remember my mom screaming and acting totally beserk.  I know now that it was probably due to menopause, but to hear her tell it, all she had was hot flashes.  I don't think that was all!!

But try to talk about it with people who you know are going through it, and it seems to be taboo.  It's really a strange situation.  

MaryO....I had a question for you on the Osteoporosis/Bone Loss Board in the first topic about Bone Loss and Lead.  Hope you have a chance to read it and enlighten me....

CSugar,<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;Perimenopause has been challenging. &nbsp;One<br>APRN told me it's hell, and that's an apt description.<br>Women may tend to downplay it. &nbsp;Personally, it's<br>been impossible to ignore.<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; I took Activella for a while, and was bleeding<br>a lot. &nbsp;I then took just Estradiol for a while,<br>since I hadn't skipped a cycle. &nbsp;Since I've<br>begun to skip periods, I have to add <br>progesterone 10 days a month. &nbsp;Hopefully,<br>my precarious mood won't plummet, with<br>addition of natural progesterone. &nbsp;I'm<br>finally getting some days where I feel<br>human.<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm 46, and hope to go off NHRT, as soon<br>as possible.<br>

chriscarol--

I'm with you 100 percent there!  Perimenopause was worse for me than menopause.  I'm 51 and hoping it's soon going to be over and I can get on with other things and just live my life again.      

When I was in perimenopause, I was crying at work!  I'd start crying over some little remark.  I didn't know what was happening to me, only that I couldn't control it.  I had never cried easily before.  

Then it got worse, with hot flashes and night sweats and losing my temper every day.  So I started the Activella and it's helping, but like you I'm hoping to get off it soon.  

I'm glad we've got this website for info & messages from others who are going through the same thing.  

greenchiigirlJust to let you know there are others who go though menopause very early. I was 35 when I stopped having my periods. They doctor put me on HRT and I was on it many years. One doctor took me off for a short time and than another put me back on. I am now 54 and am off HRT. I had very little menopause symptoms ever. Just a little warm flushes once in a while for a very short time before I started HRT. Now that I am off I have some vaginal dryness. I am worked about osteoporosis though. Just thought I let you know that there are others. I guess I never talked to anyone about it either because there was no one else I knew experiencing menopause at such an early age. I was put on HRT in the first place to prevent all the things they now say HRT causes! Really scary!

&nbsp; &nbsp; I've cut my estradiol dosage down to a<br>quarter of the original dosage. &nbsp;Except for<br>irritablility, slight flashes, and increased insomnia,<br>I actually better. &nbsp;The anxiety's not nearly as intense,<br>nor does everything seem as bleak. &nbsp;I was afraid to<br>stop, but have no choice since I can't handle<br>progesterone. &nbsp;We're now being advised to use HRT<br>for hot flashes during perimenopause. &nbsp;In general<br>long term use is not recommended.