After a couple of experiences I had this week re: Valentine's Day, I have developed a theory. You can tell how selfish and self-centered a man is based on how he celebrates (or doesn't celebrate) Valentine's Day. My idea is that how you behave on Valentine's Day shows how considerate you are of your significant other's feelings. Since women get more into romantic stuff than guys, the attitude of the men is usually a sign of what the holiday will be like. If a guy is selfish, he's going to blow it off regardless of his woman's feelings about it, no matter how easy it would be to just stop and get a card at the drugstore. If the guy is not selfish, he'll make the effort and participate to make his lady happy, even if he thinks it's kinda stupid and silly. Examples:

-- My man, who bends over backwards to make people happy, was wonderful to me. I told him he didn't have to do anything, that it wasn't a big deal to me. He did it anyway -- flowers, candy, card, the whole nine yards. He can't eat much candy because he's diabetic, so I baked him sugar-free muffins. Oh, and he even did a little something for a woman in our office who's man blew off Valentine's Day. She was disappointed, so my guy got her a cheap candy heart so she wouldn't feel left out. (And no there's nothing going on between them.)

-- My ex-boyfriend -- who I couldn't get to stop at the store without him giving me a hard time about it -- NEVER did anything on Valentine's Day for me. Considered it a ploy by the card companies to make money off gullible sappy people.

-- My brother -- one of the most selfish people I've ever known -- called it a "stupid f***ing holiday, and refused to participate in it whether his wife wanted to or not.

-- My mom's boyfriend -- a jewel to my mom -- went out of his way to make sure Mom had a nice holiday. Bought her candy, a card ... and tires for her pickup truck.

Test it for yourself and see if I'm right. Ask the men in your life -- fathers, brothers, friends -- how they feel about Valentine's Day and see how their answers match with what you know about them. If I'm right, that would actually be a good question to ask on first dates. It would give a woman some insight on the guy's future behavior, not just on Valentine's Day but generally.

LOVE this post! Okay, so I called and asked a couple men in my life what they think of VD:

My Dad ~ 'I didn't get your Mother a card. Was I supposed to? It isn't her birthday.' (LOL!)

My Brother ~ (who, by the way, is the only one that sent me a BEAUTIFUL card for VD!)
'Valentine's Day is for girls. A man should buy something for their sister or mother or wife.
If anyone sent me anything for Valentine's? I'd be pissed. And I'd never do anything for them
again. It's ONLY for girls.' (I laughed SO hard at his response!)

My Boss ~ 'I think any man should remember the woman in his life on Valentine's Day. After all,
it's a holiday that women adore and look forward to. I bought my wife a necklace, a card and
took her out to dinner, even in the blizzard we were having.' (AW! AND HE'S TAKEN! )

My Best Friend, Bob (who is gay)~ 'Is this a quiz question? I am SO sorry I forgot you on Valentine's Day honey! I love you tho and I PROMISE to remember you next year!' ('nuff said! LMBO!)

ooh Lord have mercy... I shudder to think what the guys in my life would have responded to this question!!!

My guy is one of those big tough guys who just cringes at the thought of expressing emotions in words, but he's built me a world fit for a queen. He bought me a little rose bush, and we'll have dinner out on the weekend. He's just no good at the romantic stuff, but he tries, bless his pointy wee head. And he's the one guy at work who remembers the secretaries with a bottle of champagne - at Christmas, because they work so hard to keep things ticking over, and receive so little recognition.

OMG Kleo, you cracked me up! Thanks for your informal survey; I loved it.

I'd agree with the first sentiments. I wish I had thought to ask all my dates what they've done on VD. It would have saved me a lot of bad relationships. Fortunately, I married the right one. He always thinks of me and the kids on this day. Too bad my boss didn't think so and made me travel that day. Bah humbug?

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KLEEO!!!!!!!! A VERY THROROUGH SURVEY ...........It covers all bases LMBO ..........xxxxxx (say hello to Perkins Cove for me and throw a pebble in for me, next time you're there) - is it very cold and snowy with you??

Well........my gorgeous Irish love ........dug out 15 ton of earth for my greenhouse and vegetable plot (latest good idea lol).....after 2 days he leant on his spade and said "do you mind if we dont go for that Valentines meal tonight?" ....... god Bless his cotton socks .........mind you, he followed this up with - "next time you have a good idea Im gonna poor you a very large Brandy and hope you forget about it"

Julie x

My darling hubbie bought me a real whizzy (musical ) keyboard and I cried!....
My great effort was a cd and a comedy dvd, Amazon are slow with the books I ordered

What does that say about me then?

Oh gosh, I think this was the 'funnest' thread I've ever encountered here in P/S world! I grabbed my cell phone after reading Webalina's post and started calling every man I could think of to get their 'views' on this holiday. I had SUCH a great time and laughed SO hard while making the calls! What is the next thing we can do a survey on with the guys in our lives?? Their reactions are SO unpredictable! LMBO!

Duch: Lucky you to have a big, tough guy that has built you a world fit for a queen! And he bought you a rose bush! .....to me, THAT is romance! You're a lucky lady!

Rendy: I think our 'bad relationships' are experiences that prepare us for the REAL deal when we meet the love of our lives, and sounds like you are LUCKY enough to have that now!

Julie: GIRLFRIEND! I was at P/C today! WHAT a gorgeous day in Maine it has been! Today it WASN'T snowy and cold, but batten down the hatches cause the white stuff is COMING again tonight! LISTEN to you talking about your gorgeous Irish love! Way to go, lady! Sounds like you certainly have a winner!

Alice: A keyboard, huh? See, to me that would've been the ULTIMATE gift! I play keys and I need a new board! LOL! Did you cry because you were happy or sad? (That's probably a silly question because I NEVER know why I'm crying these days!)

HUGS LADIES!

On Valentines Day this year, David bought me a nice card, which he presented to me with my morning tray of coffee (yes, he brings me coffee - a mini-Valentine's Day - every morning).

I returned the favor by screaming in his face at the top of my lungs a couple hours later, about something that I couldn't remember 2 minutes later.

And then apologized profusely, and then waited around until I felt less embarrassed, to give him HIS card.

I am menopausal. This is what menopause can do.

JJ

Kleo - Thank you. I agree. I am lucky. My guy is a rock. The only time I really remember him being unhinged (barring tragedy) was once, years ago, I curled up on his lap and coo'd "say something romatic". He went beet red, and sweated bullets. He just didn't have a clue what to say!!!

JJ - Isn't it the pits? Do you remember years ago, Jon Lovitz on SNL used to do a reoccurring skit on bad acting? Master Thespian!! Neither of are morning persons, and we do our level best to avoid each other until one or both of us has had 3 cups of coffee. Otherwise advanced snippyness to flat out stroppyness ensue. We immediately forgive each other with declarations of Master Thespianhoodery, following the necessary coffee. Might be stupid, but it works for us.

The thing with me and my hubby is that we exchange cards and gifts. This means that he fully expects and waits for something from me, and I cannot just sit around and collect. Do any of you have to get your hubbies something? I have to go out and get a card and think of a gift. He says underwear is unacceptable (aw, but it's so EASY to grab a couple packages of teeshirts!). He doesn't need clothes since he gets those at his birthday and the holidays. Doesn't like gift cards. I have seen gift cards that I gave him literally sit there for two years. One time I took the darn thing and bought something myself finally, because I feared the card might expire or become obsolete. I've already bought him kitchen gadgets and utensils (he does the cooking because he doesn't like my cooking). So I always have a horrible time trying to think of something to give him. We are getting to the age where we like edible gifts. Candy, cookies. Since he's diabetic, I've given him sugar free candy.

Well, this year I happened to see that there was a live show coming to our area that I knew he'd like, the weekend right after Valentines Day, so I bought two tickets. I presented the tickets to him in his card, then asked that he reimburse me for part of his. Well, the tickets were way more than what we tentatively agreed to spend. And we did eat out, too. At a mutually-agreed upon restaurant. Valentines Day is a joint effort in my house. If I slack off one year, I can expect it to come back to bite me next year.

My husband never asks for things. I just suffer from that woman thing...GUILT

For gifts I buy him books,cd's ( if I buy DVD's he doesn't watch them), and clothes. Then I'm stuck. So each year for Christmas and birthdays it's like Groundhog Day.

He's had bongos, electric drumpads (both never used) and once I bought him a lesson on a light aircraft - I sat at home pooing myself til he got back! We did buy an acoustic guitar which he said he'd have for Valentine's Day but it was bought with joint money and was no surprise on the day. Since the day after it has been in a case and never played.

And Amazon have still not despatched the books!

Of course, there's no law that says you HAVE to celebrate Valentine's Day. If you both feel like it's stupid or a drudge, don't do it. Don't MAKE yourself make merry. The guy doesn't need to go through all the hoopla if his lady isn't into it. What s*cks is when one person puts real significance to it, and the other makes it clear that s/he couldn't care less.

Something that bugged me though...last year I heard a survey on the radio where they said most women -- don't remember the percentage, but it was something like 65% -- expect presents for Valentine's Day from their men, but have no intention of giving the guy anything. I found that incredibly selfish on the women's part. Why doesn't it go both ways? I would never expect a present from someone without reciprocating. I did things for my previous guy for 15 years when I knew for a fact I woudn't get anything back. So it's not just guys that can be self-centered slobs.

Webalina, I agree. All of the advertising for Valentines Day seems to focus on what to get HER. I would see TV commercials showing women receiving jewelry or roses. What kinds of gifts did you get your previous guy? I have such a hard time with good gift ideas. And I really HATE it when I buy something and he doesn't use it. I figure the fault is mine for not getting him something he wanted. I once went to a lot of trouble to order a fancy Tupperware dish that had multiple uses (he does the cooking). I had to secretly order the Tupperware item and have it delivered to a nearby shopping mall where they had a booth. I had to go there after work to pick it up, then keep it hidden in the house until gift day. Well, it's sitting in our cupboard and he's maybe used it once. And he wanted it! Nuts. Oh well. Better luck next time.

CSugar, I'm in the same boat as you. I always buy my husband a gift but have run out of ideas too. This year I also bought my husband tickets. They're to a theatre production that we both have wanted to see. It gets really tough when you've been married so long (we're 34 years) to come up with a fresh idea. I can't imagine not reciprocating though because to me that's thoughtless. Arla.

I agree with you ladies 100% on the 'gift exchange' thing. When my husband was alive, we BOTH really did it up big for each other on Valentine's Day. To us, it was a day to celebrate our LOVE for each other. And we did just that. Dinner, cards, and gifts (9 times out of 10 mine for him was a slinky red 'something' to wear that night!). After he died, I never celebrated Valentine's Day with another man. I always reserved it for my daughter. And to this day, she is 21 years old and STILL looks for her Valentine's package from Mom!
HUGS!

arla, may I ask what theatre production you will see, if you don't mind my asking? The reason I'm so nosy is that we just saw "The Producers," and we've seen "Wicked" and "Cats" and he LOVED "Menopause the Musical" almost more than I did. We've seen a lot of other shows, too. "42nd Street," "Showboat," "Phantom of the Opera," "West Side Story," to name a few. Thank goodness he likes to do this sort of thing with me, as I know that many men do NOT like shows.

Kleeo, that is wonderful about your daughter still enjoying a Valentine from you. I used to send my daughter Valentines with a little money when she was away from home, or I'd get her a little box of her favorite candy when she was still home, and when she was really little, I'd give her a stuffed animal or something.