I am 51 and post-menopause (no periods for 1-1/2 years).

I have had a very easy time of it (other than the weight gain) but sex has become really painful.

I use the MoonMaiden Vital Vulva AND Astroglide for lube, and it is still really painful. Sex is important to my DH (less so to me these days, alas) and I don't want to stop because it's good for my marriage. I am not on any hormones and don't want to take anyway. I would really like a good lubricant that comes in an applicator. Astroglide is so messy ( put it on HIM) and doesn't last all that long, and the VitalVulva may be what's causing the irritation when combined with friction.

Can anyone suggest a good sexual lubricant that I can pop in beforehand without making a mess?

Hi, I wish I had an answer for you but it has been over 5 years since I have had sex with my husband so I wouldn't even know where to begin. Good luck, I am sure someone has an answer for you on these great boards!

Hi,
I don't know whether or not u looked on this site under recommendations section, but I think they mention some kind of cream for this?? sorry, I can't be of more help. Wish u the best!

Hi NewCrone,

Assuming that you've been checked by a doctor and you are fine, you may be experiencing low estrogen and a dry vagina. I understand that you don't want to take anything for it and I tried not to as well. I had pain with and without sex and the only thing that helped me is Vagifem which is a vaginal estrogen. I tried the Vital Vulva, Replens etc and although I felt slight relief it wasn't enough. I hope you find what you need.

I was hoping to get some answers on this subject.
I had a hyst for cancer last March so not allowed vagifem or the like.
I tried Replens in the early days but stopped it after a couple of weeks because it gave me a pink/orange discharge which, at the time, having just had cancer I could not handle.
I was doing ok until recently with vitamin E capsules inserted, but the soreness and burning during intercourse has become unbearable.
I have gone back on to Replens again and the pink discharge went with use, but i am not finding at present that it has helped with the pain during intercourse. If anything it is worse.
Can anyone say how long it takes for Replens to work (if it does at all?)
I have been using it for almost 2 weeks. I presume because I have no ovaries my symptoms are going to be more severe.
janet c

Hi Janet C,
I am a true believer of the Replens and it does take at least a week or more to kick in I just was so desperate I kept using it every other day but I will say for the intercourse problem the Ky jellys right before are great but even better I found this Calendula by Hylands it is suppose to be 50 times stronger than vit E, I use it until I have relief and then I have gone weeks without needing it.
Please look into it I found it at an herbal store, but you can google the company Hylands to see where you can find it.
I can google you a store where I shop at to.
I dont have it in front of me now because I keep it in the bathroom and someone is showering but I believe it says 1X off on it its a yellow lil jar.
It is very difficult to go thru this I totally understand, Hey do you find that you bleed sometimes with intercouse to?
Take care,
Tinks
So on the replens I know there is a discharge but I noticed it is less with usage, I dont worry about this it seems as if it is the replens itself that is coming out in this form.

Hi Janet

There are two good articles here, provided by Dearest on V. A. These include a description of Tinkiracinghorse's calendula oil, which I must say sounds promising.

You say you've had a hysterectomy for cancer; I trust you are correct if you say you cannot have HT, but... If i were you, I would double check with the gyno about this, esp with respect to dryness. Many doctors will give estrogen cream to be used topically. I guess you know that there are several forms of estrogen, some of which are metabolized by the liver, and that's a real worry; some are metabolized in the tissue of the vagina and relieve dryness... in fact, that's what their job is. These are the ones the doctors are less concerned with because they don't travel throughout the body.

I'd check, if the thought doesn't upset you. Don't want to stress you out.

Thanks ladies. I will definitely look for that calendula-it sounds good.
I dont think the Replens on its own is gonna be enough for me. I am not just dry-I am very sore especially around the bladder area. I have had some tests but I dont think there is any infection.
I have seen my doc who has written to my surgeon as she doesn't see why I cant have some local oestrogen gel, so I am waiting to hear about it. I was definitely given the impression that they would prefer me not to have it yet, though.
If not I dont know what I am going to do. We tried to have intercourse this morning and I just couldn't take it-it hurt and burned so much!
I am very happy. though because all my sexual feelings are back to normal. I went through a phase about 6 months after my op where I went numb. I was so terrified that I would never have any sexual feelings again. I have been very scared by reading stuff on the net about how ovary removal causes complete loss of libido and all sorts of other horrible things.
Everything has come back for me, though, so now I would just like to be able to have a full relationship like before.
janet c

By the way Tinks-no I dont bleed after intercourse. If I did I would completely freak out,seeing as how I have had cancer!
We are very careful to use lubrication but it just darnwell hurts!

My Reiss book says that vaginally-applied estrogen doesn't remain entirely local. Reiss recommends estriol rather than estradiol.

My Lee book says that estrogen should never be used on its own, it should always be used in combo with progesterone even if you had a hysterectomy and/or oophrectomy. I think that pertains to estradiol though, not estriol.

Janet, let us know what the docs say. And I'm glad to hear your sexuality is back, even if intercourse is painful.

Just want to add that Lee also recommends estriol for a direct vaginal application.

What is estriol and in what way is it different from estrogen?
I get the feeling that it is something used in the US more than UK.
Is it available by prescription only? My doctor only ever talks about oestrogen gel, but my acupuncturist has advised me not to use it because it will go into the system and cause side effects like breast tenderness. I am done with all that now-I spent most of my adult life suffering from oestrogen dominance which is what, in the end caused my cancer and it is lovely to be free of it. Apart from the vaginal problems I am better than I have been and dont want to rock the boat!

There are 3 major estrogens in the human body, estradiol, estriol, and estrone. Estradiol is the principle estrogen, is the best one for relieving hot flashes and mood disorders, but it is also the riskiest for breast and ovarian cancers. Physicians have found that estriol is good for relieving vaginal symptoms and does not have the level of risk associated with estradiol.

Here's some good info about the estrogens from the Power-Surge site:

http://www.power-surge.com/educate/naturalhormones.htm

Hi Janet C,

Sorry to hear of your situation. I too have terrible dryness and suffer with terrible burning and pain during intercourse - it's just awful . I've investigated Estriol as well. Apparently it is extremely helpful as a vaginal cream - helping to add moisture to the tissues and also helping with urinary tract infections and irritation. I've read that women who have had breast cancer should use estiol since it has the lowest amount of estrogen and since it's not supposed to circulate through your body - it's simply supposed to be used topically to help with vaginal dryness. My doctors have never heard of it - and it is available on-line but I'm not comfortable ordering a hormone on-line without a prescription. I've been told that Ovestin cream is a prescription of estiol cream for topical use. Just thought I would tell you what I've learned. Best of luck ... and please let us all know when you find your answer.

Hi there
Actually, I think I have sorted myself out.
I have gone back to the Replens. I didnt like it because of a pinkish discharge when I first used it-it scared me a bit! But after finding out that this is normal at first I continued with it and eventually that has almost gone. I am also using the calendula cream recommended by tinkybug-(thanks for that)
I was using vitamin E oil before but I have stopped it now. I have a suspicion that it was causing the burning feeling around my bladder which now seems to have gone.I have been advised by my acupuncturist to avoid estrogen creams if I can-simply because they can cause side effects like sore breasts and loss of libido. I havent got much libido left as it is so I dont want to lose the bit I have
Anyway that all seems to be working so I am feeling much happier

Hi Janet..

I just wanted to confirm what you have been advised about vaginal oestrogen. Estriol is the oestrogen produced by the placenta in pregnancy and estradiol is the oestrogen produced by the ovaries.I used Ovestin cream (estriol based)for five months and whereas it did wonders for plumping up the vaginal tissues, it did cause sore breasts, nausea and it irritated the bladder and urethra. It made me sore and I felt as if in the early stages of pregnancy- not surprising as estriol is the pregnancy hormone! I have now switched to the estradiol based Vagifem which suits me so much better, BUT i can feel that in the system too. This could of course be because my tissues are very thin. I understand that this getting into the system is not harmful as both oestrogens are too weak, estriol being the weaker of the two, but can certainly understand you not wanting to risk it.

Both Ovestin and Vagifem are available on prescription only here in the UK as they are classed as topical HRT.Ovestin seems to be used more in Europe - and New Zealand - but I haven't heard of it in the US.

I hope you continue to feel better with Replens.

Yes thank you I will manage with just that I think. I was using Vagifem before my cancer diagnosis and I did have all those side effects. The plus side of it was that it stopped all my hot flushes.
janet c

Hiya Janet,
So glad to hear that you seem to have it under control now. You know I only need to use replens once in a blue moon.
It really seems to heal and soon you just need it on days where you feel it coming on.
I tell you I am sold on the Calendula ointment, now I did try the cream but the Ointment in the lil yellow jar is the best ever.
I even have gotten to the point where I forget to put it up there and am only using that a few times a week if any.
I to have used it right before a joyful time and its quite helpful. Now it does have an earthy smell but its very soothing and just natures way of helping us heal our bodys again,
I do hope you continue on a pathway to healing.
Tinks

Hi Tinks
I am using the calendula ointment as well but I am still getting a slight pinkish discharge from the Replens some days. I am using it every other day at the moment. I still find sex a bit painful and I wonder-because I have no ovaries and therefore no hormones at all, whether it will get much better. The bladder soreness has definitely reduced though
janet c

Good to hear from you Janet,
You know it could be the lack of ovaries. So glad the bladder sorenss has gotten better to. You know sometimes I just get a pain on my left side probably the ovary and I put the heat pad and it then it goes away.
I also had the pink discharge for a long while, but its normal. I even had a lil brnish to I figured it works and none of the docs where suggesting anything to help except hormonal creams so I have stuck with it.
When I need it I just wear a light pad just in case.
So glad the ointment is helping you now remember when we are going the natural route we have to be patient for it to totally sink in.
When you put in the ointment give it a good massage so it gets all up in there , softly of course.
Take care,
Tinks

Thanks for your advice, its been great.
I tell you what-they ought to put something in the Replens leaflet about the pink discharge. I wouldnt use it for nearly a year after my op becauseI was so freaked out, thinking I was spotting.If it hadn't been for this site, i would still be struggling along now- afraid to use it. I wonder if I ought to write to them and point it out Several ladies have been freaked out on this site about it, so imagine how many other women are.
By the way I had my hyst etc a year ago today and I still feel grim!
Jan

Hey Jan maybe that wouldnt be a bad idea to write them and tell them so because even though at first I thought what the heck is this I just keep using it because I was desperate.
Hey another thing I will tell you that might help see what you think. I go to an herbal store called Herbies and theres a lady there who has been involved in this natural stuff for over 30 years.
She listened to my story and also had me start the omega 3's it helps keep the oils in the body.
I take fish oil capusles the non fishy taste and it needs to say Purified to make sure the ocean toxins have been removed.
Just a thought I truly believed this also helped me.
See ya soon,
Tinks
Hey if you ever get a chance come visit us at WHATS YOUR SYMPTOM TODAY?
Sorry you are still grim , I suppose that means bad moods?
You know what you have been thru was very traumatic so it takes time to finally believe all is well and then with the Genie not behaving that puts a damper on ones smile to.

Hi Tinks
No -by grim I dont mean bad moods. I have terrible anxiety and hot flushes due to surgical menopause. At present I am not dealing with it very well because my dear sister's partner has just been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumour.
I am finding it so painful to have to see them both suffer and not be able to do anything .
Yes what I went through was traumatic, but I was dealing with it and was beginning to leave it all behind.
On a purely selfish level, his tests, diagnosis and hospitalisation have all brought all the memories of last year back with a vengeance.
I feel bad saying it because I am ok and he is not but its how it has affected me.
Thanks for all your cheerful posts anyway. You always seem so upbeat and and sound like a really fun lady
janet c

Evening Cuite,
Oh so sorry to hear about your sisters partner so sad.
You know I can totally understand how that would kind of kick up memories for you I believe its only natural.
Dont feel bad saying it it is what it is. You do whatever you feel you can to help in anyway and everyone has to deal with what life gives them, you went thru your ordeal and now its dejavu.
You know something similar happened to me this past year. Hubbys Mom died Dec 1st and it was so hard to deal with because it brought back all the bad memories of when I lost my Mom and that was over 25 years ago. Then poof his dad just died this past month they were divorced.
Now his death was so much easier to deal with for alot of reasons but just the trauma of losing someone, or losing something in life is hard.
You lost your sense of well being for a while, you had alot of things that were not certain, your future etc this is a life changing expierence.
I had a breast cancer scare about 3 or so years ago and didnt even have the cancer and my life was changed forever.
First with all kinds of fear, and total anxiety and a sense of doom.
So I will say a prayer for your sisters partner.
I was working and had to take a break and come on and play.
See ya
Tinks

I'd say that it might be worthwhile using an organic lubricant/moisturiser rather than Replens. Replens contains glycerin, a sugar alcohol that can cause or feed thrush, not a hugely desirable outcome. I use 'Yes' when sex becomes sore, it has an immediate soothing effect. I don't think it's available in stores, try their website (yesyesyes.org) if you're interested.

Hi,

I use a natural cream called "ESTRACE", 0.1 mg. for vaginal dryness, I apply it every two to three days and before having sex I use KY. Using both helps me a lot. I hardly get the soreness.

I hope this helps.