Just spoke to gyno about getting more estrogen into me. For the moment (i.e., this month) we're adding a .025 patch to me.

She said I could try oral later. (I told her I hate the patch.) I think we need to see how well this new dosage will work.

I asked about creams and gels and she said most women find them too messy.

I know a few women here find compounded topicals OK.

I'd love to hear more. thanks!

Nevermore,

If you apply lotion to your arms and legs every day and do not think that is messy, then you should be OK. Creams and gels could seem messy if you have to put a large amount on at one time. If your dose is 1 gram that may seem like quite a lot to spread all over if you are not used to using creams and lotions on your skin. If you have the compounding pharmacy make your cream, gel, or oil so that your dose is in a small amount of base then the messiness factor seems to go away. Right now my dose of estradiol in olive oil is two drops three times a day. Two drops of olive oil rubbed over my thigh or forearm is not messy at all. You can get estradiol in olive oil from the Women's International Pharmacy in a concentrated form where one drop equals 1 mg of estradiol. One drop is too concentrated for me so I dilute the estradiol with my own olive oil in a separate dropper bottle to get to my required dose. You can also get more diluted estradiol in olive oil as well. With my testosterone lotion I only take 0.25 MLs of lotion at a time. That is a small pea sized amount and it is not messy. With one of my testosterone RXs the pharmacy diluted the testosterone too much and I did not like it that I had to spread more of it over too many parts of my body to get my desired dose, so I had them make a more concentrated dose the next time so I could use less base lotion. With the standard EstroGel I think 1 gram equals 0.75 mg of estradiol and according to the packaging one gram is a typical dose. If you get EstroGel you may find that your dose has to be spread out onto a couple of areas. If that bothers you consider getting a mail order RX for the concentrated estradiol in olive oil. I think you can learn to live with any messiness, it will be worth it so that you can fine tune your dose.

Oral estrogens come with there own set of problems... I would rather deal with the topicals.

Kathy

Kathy, that all sounds so complicated, or, rather, I think I have a bit of fear in me. My symptoms were so severe I never want to go there again. I'm afraid of underdosing or overdosing. I think, wow, you're really brave doing this.

Spreading it on three times a day is a heck of a commitment, too.

BTW, I *don't* apply lotion to my arms and legs -- I find it messy! And there I'm not even committed to doing it daily, and not in a large amount.

I know orals have their own problems -- otherwise, I would have asked "why not oral?" when first given patches. I understand the idea of the patches is to have a consistent flow of the stuff. And a pill can't quite do that. Whereas I see that your method does.

I appreciate your information. Gives me a lot to think about. I think I'd follow your way with a lot more alacrity if I was sure of myself.

The irony is that this crazy disease has cast a shadow of uncertainty over me. I was never so insecure in my life. Even though that feeling (which was physical) has cleared up now, it was such a short while ago that I still feel the afterchill.

Thanks, Kathy!

Nev

Nev,

You may not need it three times a day; some women can do two times a day. Sorry I made it seem complicated--I was really trying to do the opposite, I guess that is a problem with writing. The basic thing that I wanted you to know is that if it is messy ask for the hormone to come in a more concentrated base so you can apply a smaller amount each time. I apply my morning estrogen to my face instead of facial moisturizer--it is easy. My second and third doses are on my forearms or thighs--30 seconds and I am done. Your body will remind you to take your dose, mine does. Sometimes I only need two doses/day.

When you start doing it you will gain confidence in yourself. Under and overdosing is not a big deal; the estrogen goes into and out of your body quickly. So your breasts may be sore for part of the day--it is not really a big deal and if you adjust down they will get better, but when they are sore you mind/mood will feel good, at least mine does. Over and under dosing occasionally makes me realize that the estrogen is actually doing something. I under dosed this past weekend and felt depressed but I figured it out and now next time I will be better at dosing. When I was younger I used to get sore breasts from my body making too much estrogen, so I do not feel so bad that I mess up a little bit too when my own endocrine system could not always get it right.

You could just decide to try it. See how you do and decide if you like the freedom of fine tuning your estrogen rather than getting a bulk measurement amount from a patch or pill. If you decide after a wile it is not for you, you can switch to something else. But it you want to do it, do not be afraid because if you set your mind to it you can accomplish this task. Low estrogen makes us loose confidence, once your estrogen is up you will find your confidence again, I did!

Kathy

Thanks again, Kathy -- but don't you need a fairly low amount of estrogen for yourself? I'm already at 1.025 mg on patches. That's really high and it's mainly for the mental symptoms, which make me loopy. If I only needed a little bit to control hot flashes and help with vaginal dryness and such I wouldn't hesitate to experiment. (I know you said you underdosed and got depressed. THAT is exactly what keeps me from experimenting, or from experimenting right now.)

(Having recently been run over by the proverbial truck I don't want it coming around the block again!)

Must be great if you can use your supply on your face. Must be great for your skin.

I applaud you :-)

Nev

Orals help with cholesterol, the liver "senses" estradiol and puts breaks on churning LDl and TRG.

I have tried the Estrogel a few times. I ordered it on my own from Master's Marketing because I wanted to see how it compared to the oral estradiol I was using at the time. I did not find it too messy - one premeasured pumping is 0.75mg, usual dose is two measures (1.5mg) but some use 3-4 pumps a day. It is thin and spreads very easily on forearms, it dries in 5 minutes or so and does not leave any sticky residue.
My only problem with it is that I broke out in an itchy rash around my wrist 2 or 3 times after using it. My skin is very sensitive and I am not sure if it was coincidence or if it is sensitivity to the alcohol base. I cannot use any products with alcohol on my face as it causes a reddened "windburn" reaction on my skin.

NiteOwl,

After you compared oral and topical estradiol which one did you like the best and why?

Thanks,

Kathy

Sorry for the long delay in answering...just happened to be browsing through older topics tonight and saw the question.

I liked them both equally well. I used the oral for 3 months and only used the Estrogel a few times. I did break out in a pink rash near my wrists when using the Estrogel. My skin is sensitive to any type of alcohol but the rash did not cover my entire forearm where I spread the Estrogel...so not sure if it was caused by the alcohol or just coincidence.

I am not using any hormones right now, just wanted to trial them on my own to see what symptoms it helped. I have since discussed it with my doctor and he is agreeable with what I want when I am ready. I wanted to see if I was done with periods so have been trying to hold out until my next scheduled appointment this spring.

If you got a rash from Estrogel you may have rubbed it too far. Dosage is best when rubbed between the wrist and shoulder,not on either of them. As to amount, one pump squirt is the size of a quarter. There is another product, a
lotion on the market that has to be rubbed all over legs and buttocks. Estrogel is soy based too and bio-identical.
You can put lotion on top of Estrogel after about 5 minutes past when it dries. Alcohol in a dose is 10-15%. It is the biggest selling estrogen outside of US, I hear. US Dr's like horse urine better here(Premarin).

Hello ladies,

I'm so so happy to have found power-surge's message boards - I thought I was going crazy - now it's confirmed that I am going crazy - but that others are right there with me! I can't wait to show my husband some of your entries - he doesn't understand how some days I can be a fairly civilized wife and mother and then without warning I become this horrible, miserable bi*ch

I'm 46 and postmenopausal if you can believe that. Anyway, I've never taken hormones before and with all the information out there about the different options I am so very confused. My gynocologist just gave me a presciption for Estrace vaginal cream because I am like the Sahara Desert and intercourse is just killing me . I also experience urinary tract infections after intercourse - what a lovely mess I am. I have not used the Estrace cream because I think there is too much estrogen in it for me (my maternal aunt has breast cancer so I'm naturally worried about having too much estrogen in my bloodstream). Anyway I've read quite a bit about Estriol cream and wondered if anyone has ever used that as a topical, vaginal cream? It seems to offer the smallest amount of estrogen available in a cream - BUT it doesn't come with a prescription so my doctor can't prescribe it. I'm very skeptical about ordering such an important medicine (without FDV oversight) over the internet. I'm a big chicken but I have BIG menopausal issues that need attention before I crack. Estriol cream is not supposed to really circulate in the bloodstream - it's just applied topically down there and does it's job of moistening and thickening the tissues. Does anyone have any experience with Estriol? I'd love to hear more about it. Where did you get it? Does it have an expiration date? Also, when does someone need progesterone? Testosterone? I have no libido at all - what will help me there?

Thanks for any help you can offer!!!

I thought estriol cream requires a prescription.

Here's an excerpt from a Power-Surge transcript with Pete Hueseman indicating that a blend of estriol and testosterone can relieve vaginal dryness :

Niklinsha: is there a product for vaginal dryness in the way of hormones if you have had breast cancer estrogen +?

Pete Hueseman, R.Ph., P.D.: Yes, one could use our Vaginal cream consisting of Estriol and testosterone, on prescription and it would be safe to use in this situation.

First call in to me, for a saliva test. Once the labs are back, we can formulate something for you, but for only the vaginal dryness. As I said before, the Estriol and Testosterone vaginal cream works well.

Hi men-on-pause,

If you do not want to take much estrogen, think about trying the estrace in a smaller amount than what the directions tell you to take. If the directions say to use 1 tsp. try 1/8th or 1/4th. Estriol is a weak estrogen; you will need more of it to have the same effects as the estrace.

You really need estrogen to balance added testosterone otherwise you may start getting facial hair. Estrogen helps libido, not just testosterone. Many menopausal women get facial hair because their estrogen/testosterone ratio gets out of balance; they do not have more testosterone just less estrogen, the bad ratio can cause facial hair.

If you have a uterus and you are taking estrogen, you will need progesterone as well to protect your uterus.

Since you are concerned about cancer, you could take just enough estrogen to get your blood levels up to help your symptoms but keep your risks low.

Estriol is by RX (look up Ovestin cream), you doctor can give you a prescription. You can have a cream made up with just Estriol at a compounding pharmacy as well (with a RX from your doctor).

I suggest that you read the book “Natural Hormone Balance for Women” by Uzzi Reiss MD. Dr. Reiss will answer most of your questions in his book. Dr. Reiss likes triest but you can substitute plan estradiol for the triest. He also wants post menopausal women to take progesterone every day. I do not like the way I feel on progesterone so I only take it 12 days a month. Some women like progesterone and other women like me hate it and only take it to protect their uterus.

Good luck,

Kathy