can't get libido up, using BHRT, what ranges? Options

[deckfluff]

I am 54 and just don't know what to do anymore. Am frustrated with my "no" libido. I really haven't had any problems with the typical monopause symptoms, just the loss of libido and, now, vaginal dryness. I have been using BHRT creams for about 1 year. I noticed a positive change in the beginning and now, I don't notice anything. It doesn't seem worth it to continue. My weight, blood pressure, etc. is all good. I can't find any resources on what hormone ranges vs doses. I've read most of the popular books and most of the popular sites. I was using a 1 ml (estradiol 9 mg and testoerone 2.5 mg) combined cream, once a day plus a 30 progesterone (100mg/gm) cream once a day. Nothing......My breast feel like lumps of flesh. My clitoris is dead. We are now trying the Vivel Dot .05 patch for one week but don't see a difference. Any suggestions. Thanks.

[caz-art]

I'm assuming you have had your testosterone levels checked?

I have the same problem, but have not taken anything yet...am about to do a post meno hormone saliva test to check my levels.

Caz

[deckfluff]

I'm assuming you have had your testosterone levels checked?

I have the same problem, but have not taken anything yet...am about to do a post meno hormone saliva test to check my levels.

Caz

Thank you for asking. Yes, I started BHRT over one year ago and had panel in 4/08, results: TSH serum=3.37, Testosterone Serum= 53. Testosterone/Free= 0.5 and Progesterone = 0.6, Estradiol 248 pg/ml. When I first started the 1% testerone cream, I applied it to my clitoris. I didn't really notice anything unless I applied it more than once each day and then I noticed more of an irritation than pleasure. Now, I don't notice anything....no pleasure, no irritation.

I am wondering which is more important for libido, progesterone or estrogene? I do feel more desire right before my, almost nonexistant, period. But, other than that, am not feeling any desire. Stimulation becomes boring, why bother, nothing happens. And, I like my fellow, no problem with attraction but my body is just not responding.

[caz-art]

same here deckfluff.....cannot get any desire no matter what DH does!.....I will let you know what my results are and we can compare!.....my alternative Dr. will probably prescribe something different.

I did get quite turned on after a few glasses of vino a few weeks back, but would rather not have to put up with night time hot spells and a hangover for the sake of it!!!!

Caz

[wordsmith]

I would say that 2.5 mg of testosterone is a good amount to raise you from 50 or so level up to 70 or 80 for an optimum serum blood level. I don't think you meant 9 mg of estrogen, that doesn't sound quite right. My first guess is that your estrogen level is somehow off. I know 258 sounds high, but that was April 2008 and it could have been a temporary surge. And without the right estrogen level, testosterone backfires. Are you taking estradiol and not estriol which has a lesser effect? Is it from an accredited compounding pharmacy? I would expect that you would be taking between 1 and 4 mg a day (if estradiol cream).

Since the progesterone downregulates the estrogenic effect, if I were you I would stop the progesterone and see what happens. If you start to come to life, I would wait a month or two and then cycle it, not take it every day, our bodies need a break from progesterone, also it builds up in the tissues if we take it in cream form. I take it too ( 20 mg 2x a day 12 days a month.)

I am not as knowledgeable about thyroid as many on the bhrt board, but I just read today that although conventional doctors read TSH as normal when < 5, actually it should be 3 or less. Perhaps it is your thyroid?

[SKEEWEEAKA]

Thank you for asking. Yes, I started BHRT over one year ago and had panel in 4/08, results: TSH serum=3.37, Testosterone Serum= 53. Testosterone/Free= 0.5 and Progesterone = 0.6, Estradiol 248 pg/ml. When I first started the 1% testerone cream, I applied it to my clitoris. I didn't really notice anything unless I applied it more than once each day and then I noticed more of an irritation than pleasure. Now, I don't notice anything....no pleasure, no irritation.

I am wondering which is more important for libido, progesterone or estrogene? I do feel more desire right before my, almost nonexistant, period. But, other than that, am not feeling any desire. Stimulation becomes boring, why bother, nothing happens. And, I like my fellow, no problem with attraction but my body is just not responding.

You know oddly enough, I've been using my progesterone and I have had "flashes" of a libido again. It is the oddest thing. I am beginning to wonder if my estogen levels are high in the follicular phase and needed some opposing progesterone during that time. It also has had a calming affect on me... I think that from what I am experiencing that I needed more progesterone to balance out the higher levels of estrogen, at least during this phage. That said, my free testosterone is on the high side...my total is right below the halfway mark. Could the fact that you are experiencing a libido right before your period mean that you are responding to the higher levels of progesterone?


TJ

[Sariah]

TJ,
Very interesting about the P and libido. You know, I always attacked DH when I first ovulated, which, I guess, is nature's way of making sure the activity takes place during a fertile time to preserve the human race. And that is the time P surges, except back then it didn't bother me like it does now. I'm thinking that P bothers many of us now because there is not enough E to balance it. But the million $$ question is: What is the right balance? And it's different for everyone.

[SKEEWEEAKA]

TJ,
Very interesting about the P and libido. You know, I always attacked DH when I first ovulated, which, I guess, is nature's way of making sure the activity takes place during a fertile time to preserve the human race. And that is the time P surges, except back then it didn't bother me like it does now. I'm thinking that P bothers many of us now because there is not enough E to balance it. But the million $$ question is: What is the right balance? And it's different for everyone.

You know ever since I started having seizures, my memory is just almost nonexistent on some issues. I keep journals sporadically, and I went back and found some entries where the progesterone cream was helping with my libido. I'm not sure why I stopped using it but if I'm remembering correctly my libido would increase right before my period as well. I think you're right, however, that our bodies do need the P to balance out the additional estrogen but the ratio is the problem that some of us can't seem to quite get right! I wonder if there is some way to calculate based on what I've read the correct ratio and I wonder if that is what some of the "good" doctors are able to do.

For example, I read that, "Testosterone too is secreted in “surges” around the time of ovulation, perhaps as Mother Nature’s way to increase our interest in sex, and again before menses." and that, "During pre-menopause it’s common for estrogen levels to decrease slowly while progesterone levels plummet — a natural result of fewer ovulations, fewer burst follicles and less progesterone. This can cause many of our worst symptoms."

If we could mimic that cycle, returning progesterone to its correct levels in comparison to estrogen along with testosterone, then perhaps we could get our libido back... One thing I've noticed, however, it that the individuals who are taking the pellets are more successful with this. In these cases, the majority of the patients get estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone...

Interesting enough, progesterone is a PRECURSOR to TESTOSTERONE, ESTRADIOL, AND CORTISONE.... There's a graph on women to women in the menopause and estrogen dominance section... Also, after looking at the graph I now understand that my doctor initially tested 17-OH progesterone which is a byproduct of progesterone...the saliva test tested my actual progesterone....the difference being that the 17-oh progesterone was 66 (35-290) which is 23% of the range and again is a precursor to the other hormones. In the saliva test it was way over the range...and estradiol was at the top of the range...

Women to women also stated, "Importantly, if we are under a lot of stress and our adrenals are pumping out cortisol, our bodies will take any available progesterone and divert it to meet that demand. If too much progesterone gets diverted for cortisol, as happens when you suffer from adrenal fatigue, there is not enough to make the testosterone needed for a woman’s sexual response — let alone to oppose rising levels of estrogen. No wonder we feel sick, lethargic, and uninterested in sex when we’re under stress!"

The researcher in me wants to know what the "correct" ratio is???


TJ

[gringatica2003]

Same here'DRY VAGINA, NO LIBIDO AND all my other menopauseal symptoms are essentially gone..i guess i would be in post menopause...low levels of hormones according to my blood lab results...have some depression but I have been depressed since forever have stopped with antidepressants since lasy May of 2008...... I am soon to be 57. A week ago I began bioidenticals, estradial and estriol combination cream I use in a.m. and a progesterone testosterone cream I rub on my arm at bedtime. No rsults yet. I live in Costa Rica and was fortunate to find an obgyn woman dr. who does work with bioidenticals and speaks english and a compounding pharmacy who has a pharamcist who speaks english.. I am praying for a miracle to get me back a libido and a juicy pussy, excuse the raw language! I am dead and no amount of affection from my precious hubby of 26 years can get my motor running. Good luck to you. I hope the hormones start to work. IF they don´t then I don´t know what I will do. Does anyone know how many weeks or months before I can see some results¿ THIS IS A SPANISH KEYBOARD SO MY QUESTION MARK IS UPSIDE DOWN!!!

[SKEEWEEAKA]

Same here'DRY VAGINA, NO LIBIDO AND all my other menopauseal symptoms are essentially gone..i guess i would be in post menopause...low levels of hormones according to my blood lab results...have some depression but I have been depressed since forever have stopped with antidepressants since lasy May of 2008...... I am soon to be 57. A week ago I began bioidenticals, estradial and estriol combination cream I use in a.m. and a progesterone testosterone cream I rub on my arm at bedtime. No rsults yet. I live in Costa Rica and was fortunate to find an obgyn woman dr. who does work with bioidenticals and speaks english and a compounding pharmacy who has a pharamcist who speaks english.. I am praying for a miracle to get me back a libido and a juicy pussy, excuse the raw language! I am dead and no amount of affection from my precious hubby of 26 years can get my motor running. Good luck to you. I hope the hormones start to work. IF they don´t then I don´t know what I will do. Does anyone know how many weeks or months before I can see some results¿ THIS IS A SPANISH KEYBOARD SO MY QUESTION MARK IS UPSIDE DOWN!!!

Okay I'm sitting here staring at articles about progesterone and what do I find but a post that made me spit out my coffee... I know you are in a lot of pain right now, and I'm sorry about that...but thanks so much for the laugh!!! I'd like to get my mind right first and then the JUICY part would be fabulous!!!


TJ : wub:

[corky21]

Thank you for asking. Yes, I started BHRT over one year ago and had panel in 4/08, results: TSH serum=3.37, Testosterone Serum= 53. Testosterone/Free= 0.5 and Progesterone = 0.6, Estradiol 248 pg/ml. When I first started the 1% testerone cream, I applied it to my clitoris. I didn't really notice anything unless I applied it more than once each day and then I noticed more of an irritation than pleasure. Now, I don't notice anything....no pleasure, no irritation.

I am wondering which is more important for libido, progesterone or estrogene? I do feel more desire right before my, almost nonexistant, period. But, other than that, am not feeling any desire. Stimulation becomes boring, why bother, nothing happens. And, I like my fellow, no problem with attraction but my body is just not responding.

You know that TSH looks a bit high to me. I'm now on the whole low thyroid link with peri/meno. For me I had a lower TSH than that but very low T4 and also low adrenals/cortisol. The adrenals/cortisol help with the hormones too. As for testosterone, I was using 2.5mg a day for 6 months and I never felt anything either and here is the weird thing. In December my endocrinologist put me on 25mg DHEA knowing that I was using the 2.5mg testosterone, and guess what? My blood levels soared to 135 way too high. And, I felt nothing, zilch during that time. So I believe it has to be related to the thyroid/adrenal area. I stopped both the DHEA and the testosterone and waited 3 weeks to test the testosterone again. I have to wait for my next appointment with the doctor to find out if it went down. But even when it was high, and who knows for how long, several weeks? I felt zilch! So I think if the thyroid and adrenals are not functioning than no matter how much we supplement it may not do much at all.

Get a really good evaluation of all your hormones, thyroid, pituitary, adrenals, LH, FSH, Prolactin, E/P/T.

[Ilona]

Same here'DRY VAGINA, NO LIBIDO AND all my other menopauseal symptoms are essentially gone..i guess i would be in post menopause...low levels of hormones according to my blood lab results...have some depression but I have been depressed since forever have stopped with antidepressants since lasy May of 2008...... I am soon to be 57. A week ago I began bioidenticals, estradial and estriol combination cream I use in a.m. and a progesterone testosterone cream I rub on my arm at bedtime. No rsults yet. I live in Costa Rica and was fortunate to find an obgyn woman dr. who does work with bioidenticals and speaks english and a compounding pharmacy who has a pharamcist who speaks english.. I am praying for a miracle to get me back a libido and a juicy pussy, excuse the raw language! I am dead and no amount of affection from my precious hubby of 26 years can get my motor running. Good luck to you. I hope the hormones start to work. IF they don´t then I don´t know what I will do. Does anyone know how many weeks or months before I can see some results¿ THIS IS A SPANISH KEYBOARD SO MY QUESTION MARK IS UPSIDE DOWN!!!

I started BHRT 12 days ago. So this is all new to me and I will see how it will work for me in the future. I can only answer one question: I noticed results for the JUICY part after a few days.

I am on Estradiol Gel 2mg/ml, Progesterone Gel 50mg/ml, DHEA 25mg.

Good luck!

[davinci817]

Your tests are nearly a year old and I agree with the other poster that could have been a one off number for that day only. You should have been tested again a month or two out to see how things were working for you. I would recommend going back in for another serum test and see if you need some tweaking done on your replacements.