Day 11 on HRT: is relapse normal?, Should I stay on soy/cohosh supplement? Options

[Sunny330]

I first signed onto PS almost a month ago, after an unrelenting summer of awful palps and worse hot flashes and night sweats than ever before. I'm 51 and 5 years post. My 6 years peri was certainly no picnic, but nowhere near as bad as my post years have been.

Anyway, I saw my gyno almost 2 weeks ago and I'm now on day 11 of 1MG estradiol tabs. I'll be adding P cyclically in a few weeks, but my doc wanted to see what dosage of E will work for me before he prescribes the P. After about 5 days I felt a lessening in the duration, frequency and intensity of my hot flashes (the palps are better, too), and my tee shirt is pretty close to dry when I wake up in the morning. I thought I was getting better, but 2 nights ago the flashes got worse, and yesterday were almost as bad as "usual", before I started taking the E. Today they've been pretty good again. Does this happen when you start on HRT? I thought it would be a gradual but constant improvement, but it seems like I passed through a relapse this weekend.

I'm supposed to call the doc on Oct 8th to tell him if the E is working, and if it's not, he wants to double the dosage to 2MG. This scares me a little, as I wanted to stay on as low a dosage as possible. Even if that low dose doesn't completely erradicate the symptoms - I figure I can l can live with the flashes as long as they're lesser and lower intensity. Or am I wasting my time with HRT if it doesn't work completely?

Another question: I've been taking a menopause complex supplement with Black Cohosh, and soy isoflavones. Should I stop taking this now that I'm on HRT? It wasn't really working for me, but I figured it couldn't hurt. My symptoms were bad this summer, but who knows how much worse they would've been without it.

Something else my doc said that surprised me: he thinks I shouldn't even be feeling thses symptoms 5 years post. I've heard they can go on for up to 10 years post, but it's still frustrating that I've had to live with them for so long.

Sue

P.S. I'm on the estradiol because my insurance is pretty bad and will not cover bio. The E tabs are only $4 at Target, because they're generic. I'll be going on some form of generic P, too. I wanted to try Prometrium, but I've read so many bad posts about it, I think I'll just stick to the synthetic stuff.

[RoundRobin]

Something else my doc said that surprised me: he thinks I shouldn't even be feeling thses symptoms 5 years post. I've heard they can go on for up to 10 years post, but it's still frustrating that I've had to live with them for so long.

This kills me. He "thinks" you shouldn't be feeling these symptoms. Well you are--case closed!!! I'm 20 months post and I started HRT a week ago. So far, i haven't noticed any difference at all. I'm still having horrific hot flashes, insomnia, moodiness, in general, I feel like total crap. I think, from talking to other women, that you need to give it a good 2 weeks before deciding if it's going to help you or not. I'm curious...why is your doctor putting you on estrogen alone? I always thought that it was important to be on both E and P...but what do I know...my thinking isn't very rational or clear these days...

[sciencelady]

Hi RoundRobin - I started on HRT (PremPhase) 6 days ago. I haven't had any relief either. In fact , I think I may feel worse. The first couple of days I felt quite good, but I think I was just having a good spell(nothing to do with the HRT). I have unbelievable nausea, no appetite and my night flashes are still there (maybe a tiny bit less). I'm still not sleeping well either. I'm on the verge of ditching the HRT. How long should we give it. I feel lousy, too. I felt bad enough before - I really don't want to make it any worse.

[Sunny330]

This kills me. He "thinks" you shouldn't be feeling these symptoms. Well you are--case closed!!! I'm 20 months post and I started HRT a week ago. So far, i haven't noticed any difference at all. I'm still having horrific hot flashes, insomnia, moodiness, in general, I feel like total crap. I think, from talking to other women, that you need to give it a good 2 weeks before deciding if it's going to help you or not. I'm curious...why is your doctor putting you on estrogen alone? I always thought that it was important to be on both E and P...but what do I know...my thinking isn't very rational or clear these days...

Hi Robin,

I will be on both E & P - I'll be taking the P only ten days a month - this will probably cause my periods to return, but what the hell, I wear a pad 24/7 anyway for incontinence, so I'll be covered My periods never gave me a problem when I had them - they ran like clockwork until peri started, then they just got more and more infrequent until they went away completely. A coworker once told me she had no peri or post symptoms (lucky her!), but that her last period ever was a monster: gushing blood, lasted two weeks, awful cramps. Then....nothin'. She was done. Anyway, July 2002, me and hubby were on a camping trip in Canada. I hadn't had a period in 11 months. One month more and I figured I'd be official. One AM I wake up to find blood (yikes!). I gushed like never before. Wore two tampons and a maxi. Spent a week in the tent, forced to use mosquito-y outhouses and dreary campground toilets. It lasted two weeks total and I've never bled another drop.

Anyway (slight tangent there)... that's why the doc wants to find the correct dosage of E for me, so he can than prescribe the P accordingly. I'm relieved to hear it takes at least 2 weeks to start working. I hope yours kicks in soon - it sounds like you've been fighting the same battles I have. Doesn't menopause ****?? I can't believe we're made to go through this crap, and for so many years!!

Sue

[NiteOwl]

Another question: I've been taking a menopause complex supplement with Black Cohosh, and soy isoflavones. Should I stop taking this now that I'm on HRT?

You can check with your doctor but I don't think you should continue with the soy & black cohosh while you are using estradiol. I believe I've read that soy competes with estradiol for cell receptor sites. Estradiol fits into the cell receptor sites and relieves systems, but if soy is filling in some of those sites instead, the estradiol is blocked from entering and ultimately reduces it's ability to be able to help.

[Sunny330]

You can check with your doctor but I don't think you should continue with the soy & black cohosh while you are using estradiol. I believe I've read that soy competes with estradiol for cell receptor sites. Estradiol fits into the cell receptor sites and relieves systems, but if soy is filling in some of those sites instead, the estradiol is blocked from entering and ultimately reduces it's ability to be able to help.

Thank you NiteOwl - that's exactly what I wanted to know!

Sue

[gevalia]

I agree with Nite Owl that you should discontinue the Black Cohosh while on estradiol. After you have been on the estradiol, and things have calmed down, you could try adding some soy back, but for now, I would hold off.

Robin and Science Lady-you are both taking a preparation contain a progestin. There is a chapter in Dr. Uzzi Reiss's book called "progesterone and progestins-two million years of difference. In this chapter, he goes into some of the problems women can encounter while using a progestin. He says"these substances have some of the actions of progesterone your body makes but a lot of disturbing side effects as well. On pg. 110 of his book he states that progestins "are damaging to nerve cells. They excite and stimulate the nervous system , similar to MSG . They make you nervous and affect ability to sleep."

I could also go into their negative effect on the heart and bone but I don't want to freak anybody out. Please don't lump all hrt together as the differences are vast. Dr. Reiss's book Natural Hormone Balance is a valuable tool for anyone faced with the difficult decision of replacing hormones.