HRT, My journey Options

[RoundRobin]

Well, it's 4 days now on Prempro. Still having the hot flashes, irritability, crying jags....BUT, I've been able to sleep (with sleeping pills. A normal dose, that is.)

I heard from my endocrinologist yesterday (we communicate via email.) What she said made me want to cry: That Bio identicals are NO safer than HRT, AND that as soon as I stop taking hormones, "all my symptoms will come back." Here's the real ringer: She said HRT is not a solution, it's just procrastinating. I burst into tears when I read this.

Do you guys agree? What am I gonna do? I cannot function with these symptoms, and I didn't plan on using hormones the rest of my life, but apparently that's the only option we have? Along with increased risks of cancer and blood clots that hormone therapy brings?

I've been on this board a loooong time, but for the first time, I'm really dumbfounded. As some of you who have been here awhile know, I was staunchly opposed to taking hormones because of the risks that the Women's Health Initiative Study found (I've come to hate that darned study.) And so I perservered, and suffered, thru unspeakable amounts of personal stress along with flashes, insomnia, mood swings, migraines, the whole ball of wax. I was going to 'tough it out.' My periods stopped 20 months ago and I firmly believed things would slowly improve.

They didn't.

Last week I had a complete and total meltdown. I spared my fellow sisters here the details of my breakdown, because, well, frankly, I was embarassed at how I behaved (cried hysterically after 3 days of no sleep and nearly continual hot flashes, posted semi-coherent babblings here..and the ultimate 'low' was when I picked up a cherrywood dictionary stand that I've owned for 20 years and threw it against a wall and smashed it to pieces. I've never done anything like that. It scared me. It scared hubby. Hell, it scared the dog.) So I gave in and ordered the bios. In the meantime, I'm on a month of the synthetic stuff.

I called a friend yesterday who has a ph.D in public health, is the director of a health organization, and has many friends in the medical field. In fact, her primary care doctor is a hematologist. She just started Prempro too. She is 50 years old, still getting her periods, but could not function or even drive due to the severity of her symptoms. She called her primary and asked him for the 'real story' on HRT. His response was "I hate the stuff. Long term supplementation with any estrogen will definitely increase a woman's chance of getting breast cancer. But even with short term use, there is a danger of blood clots. " Great. I take a lot of supplements that have an anti-clotting effect; fish oil, vitamin E, a daily aspirin. Still, every ache and pain in my lower legs is driving me to worry.

The circularity of this problem outrages me. We menopausal women, we are the largest population of our age group in the U.S. We are "the baby boomers" (born between 1946-1964.) We're in the workforce in HUGE numbers, we are the first generation to remember and have worked at jobs before the technology revolution (ie I can actually remember when there was no email/ no interent). We are, IMO, the toughest group of women since the pioneers of the old West. The women in my age group that I know are killers. They work full time, raise kids, raise grandkids, pay taxes, take second jobs, support their ailing husband and parents. We may bitch and moan, but we SURVIVE. Hurricanes, floods, cancer, failing economy, depressed spouses, man, we SURVIVE.

And the best that medical science has to offer us is to "procrastinate our symptoms?" Excuse my language, but SCREW THAT.

It is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know where I am going to start my fight, but I'm going to fight...somewhere, somehow. Why AREN'T there any major studies on bioidenticals? Because bios don't line the pockets of big pharma? Why are so many doctors ignorant, ill informed, and JUST DON'T SEEM TO CARE?

We cannot afford to be silent anymore, you guys. Posting here has been life saving for me, but we need to take this to the streets. To our congress people. We need to DEMAND that our doctors learn and recognize what we are going through.

I know...I sound angry and a little crazed. You know why? 'Cause I'm angry, and a little crazed!

We can put a satellite out into space for months, land on the moon, carry computers the size of a battery, and we can't find a safe, effective solution for women going thru the change?

Okay, end of rant.

For now.

[franky1]

Robin, I can totally understand your frustration. I've pretty much given up on Drs. for now. I will tell you though, my sister was 40 when she went on HRT, due to severe depression, hot flashes etc. She turned 55 last Dec. and was weaned off of them. She feels amazing now. No hotflashes, depression, nothing.I really thought she would feel some effects from being on them for so long, but she's great. So, who knows?

[RoundRobin]

That's exactly what I mean. Doctors opinions seem to be based on nothing.
For every MD who says that HRT is only a bandaid, there's another who says it's great. For every study that says bios are safe, there's another that says they aren't.

Such conflicting info. How is one to know what to believe?

[MyFaith]

Robin, I think many of us sympathsize with you because we have also experience the same "wishy washy" medical double talk.

I know that my mother and MIL took Premarin for many years, weaned off this medication, and are doing fine. My mother says that occasionally she feels warm, but nothing like those hot flashes she had prior to going on hrt. Neither of these ladies spoke of reoccurrance of symptoms when they weaned off. My mother is in her 60's and she has more energy than I do. She just came back from a wonderful vacation where she spent a lot of time walking and sightseeing. You'd think she would return home exhausted, or maybe I'm thinking about myself ...well she is still on the go. I thank God for her!

[jasminetea]

To my knowledge, (based on books I've read and my doc's information) the vast majority of studies on HRT have been done on equine estrogens like in Premarin and Prempro. I don't think there have been any large studies on bioidentical hormones. My doc advised me that right now, we simply don't know if the risks associated with equine estrogens and synthetic progestins also apply to the bioidenticals. She didn't try to tell me they are safe; she just said we don't know. Her hunch is that a bioidentical hormone will be safer, but there is no scientific evidence yet, one way or the other.

Personally, I felt bad enough before hormone supplementation that I decided I would rather have a shorter life feeling well and able to function, than a longer one feeling entirely miserable, having driven away everyone I care about.

Just another thought, regarding whether using HRT is nothing but procrastination: I've read that the reason we can feel so awful in perimenopause and early menopause isn't so much the absolute levels of hormones we have or don't have, as it is the erratic fluctuations in those levels. Possibly a smooth, very gradual tapering-off process after a few years on hormones will be much easier to tolerate symptomwise than the wild ups and downs of our "natural" hormonal decline?

[robin07]

((((((((((RR)))))))))))

Robin I'll carry a banner in a protest march for greater appreciation of the menopause by the medical community.

I recently spoke to my GYN about the hot flushes and lack of sleep and without so much as a question he said 'HRT' Even when I voiced my concerns about my mothers breast cancer he said 'that was postmenopausal, so you take it until you are 50 (two years for me) just to get you over the worst and then stop taking it'. I'm assuming that he had a crystal ball behind the desk to know that I would go through the menopause in exactly two years.

When I told my GP he said 'if you go to a double glazing salesman, you'll get double glazing'

In other words having recommended other 'natural' things that hadn't worked, HRT was the only thing my GYN had left in HIS repertoire.

I went to a naturopath HE recommended acupuncture, I went to a homeopath HE recommended a homeopathic remedy.

Years ago my parents would never had even thought of asking for a second opinion following advice given to them by the family doctor. In those days the doctor's word was law. He was revered. If he said two tablets a day it was two tablets a day. If he said take ten tablets a day, then ten tablets it was.

I do so sympathise with you. I've been confused along with you and so many others.

I can't advise you whether to take HRT or not. That has to be a decision for you. I just wanted you to know that I completely share your frustration with the fluctuating nature of HRT survey results.

Sending hugs and peaceful vibes your way.

[kar4242]

(((((((((RoundRobin))))))))))))

I have heard so much controversy that it makes my head spin. I am suffering just as badly as you are and I'm almost 1 1/2 years without a period with the excpetion of one a few months ago due to hormone patch I tried. I'm so scared of getting a blood clot too. I've started hormones 3 or 4 times and stopped them for various reasons, mostly because of my fears. I get such bad side effects from most of any medication I have ever tried...and it's hard living with a tension headache 24/7. That's just one of many symptoms I've had. This past week has been a doozie.

Why don't you try enlisting Pete at Bellevue to do a study on bio's...I think he would be a good place to start.

Hugs,
Karen

[Lady E]

I agree Round Robin,more needs to be done,but it likely won't happen in time to help us.That is why I started searching for natural ways to help me as well.I do take low dose birth control because at my age(32)and having three kids to take care of the pros outweighed the cons-i am doing much better.I have found some wonderful natural things as well,evening primrose oil has been a major GOD send to me in the past weeks and has put a clamp on my PMS.I was mean all the time,now I feel human and actually smile for no reason!! Magnesium and b vitamins have been a big help as well.But I personally think that you are doing the right thing.Take the HRT,or bios,and enjoy your life-quality of life is a major thing.You will be in my prayers.GOD-bless

[joyceveronica]

Well, it's 4 days now on Prempro. Still having the hot flashes, irritability, crying jags....BUT, I've been able to sleep (with sleeping pills. A normal dose, that is.)

I heard from my endocrinologist yesterday (we communicate via email.) What she said made me want to cry: That Bio identicals are NO safer than HRT, AND that as soon as I stop taking hormones, "all my symptoms will come back." Here's the real ringer: She said HRT is not a solution, it's just procrastinating. I burst into tears when I read this.

Do you guys agree? What am I gonna do? I cannot function with these symptoms, and I didn't plan on using hormones the rest of my life, but apparently that's the only option we have? Along with increased risks of cancer and blood clots that hormone therapy brings?

I've been on this board a loooong time, but for the first time, I'm really dumbfounded. As some of you who have been here awhile know, I was staunchly opposed to taking hormones because of the risks that the Women's Health Initiative Study found (I've come to hate that darned study.) And so I perservered, and suffered, thru unspeakable amounts of personal stress along with flashes, insomnia, mood swings, migraines, the whole ball of wax. I was going to 'tough it out.' My periods stopped 20 months ago and I firmly believed things would slowly improve.

They didn't.

Last week I had a complete and total meltdown. I spared my fellow sisters here the details of my breakdown, because, well, frankly, I was embarassed at how I behaved (cried hysterically after 3 days of no sleep and nearly continual hot flashes, posted semi-coherent babblings here..and the ultimate 'low' was when I picked up a cherrywood dictionary stand that I've owned for 20 years and threw it against a wall and smashed it to pieces. I've never done anything like that. It scared me. It scared hubby. Hell, it scared the dog.) So I gave in and ordered the bios. In the meantime, I'm on a month of the synthetic stuff.

I called a friend yesterday who has a ph.D in public health, is the director of a health organization, and has many friends in the medical field. In fact, her primary care doctor is a hematologist. She just started Prempro too. She is 50 years old, still getting her periods, but could not function or even drive due to the severity of her symptoms. She called her primary and asked him for the 'real story' on HRT. His response was "I hate the stuff. Long term supplementation with any estrogen will definitely increase a woman's chance of getting breast cancer. But even with short term use, there is a danger of blood clots. " Great. I take a lot of supplements that have an anti-clotting effect; fish oil, vitamin E, a daily aspirin. Still, every ache and pain in my lower legs is driving me to worry.

The circularity of this problem outrages me. We menopausal women, we are the largest population of our age group in the U.S. We are "the baby boomers" (born between 1946-1964.) We're in the workforce in HUGE numbers, we are the first generation to remember and have worked at jobs before the technology revolution (ie I can actually remember when there was no email/ no interent). We are, IMO, the toughest group of women since the pioneers of the old West. The women in my age group that I know are killers. They work full time, raise kids, raise grandkids, pay taxes, take second jobs, support their ailing husband and parents. We may bitch and moan, but we SURVIVE. Hurricanes, floods, cancer, failing economy, depressed spouses, man, we SURVIVE.

And the best that medical science has to offer us is to "procrastinate our symptoms?" Excuse my language, but SCREW THAT.

It is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know where I am going to start my fight, but I'm going to fight...somewhere, somehow. Why AREN'T there any major studies on bioidenticals? Because bios don't line the pockets of big pharma? Why are so many doctors ignorant, ill informed, and JUST DON'T SEEM TO CARE?

We cannot afford to be silent anymore, you guys. Posting here has been life saving for me, but we need to take this to the streets. To our congress people. We need to DEMAND that our doctors learn and recognize what we are going through.

I know...I sound angry and a little crazed. You know why? 'Cause I'm angry, and a little crazed!

We can put a satellite out into space for months, land on the moon, carry computers the size of a battery, and we can't find a safe, effective solution for women going thru the change?

Okay, end of rant.

For now.

Do I hear you girl loud and clear
Quite honestly I think the majority of these Doctors know less than we do.I take synthetic HRT and honestly after it kicked in felt great.I don't know why but I have no fear.Maybe this is childish but to me the quality of my life is more important than quantity.
.

Have had friends die of cancer who never used HRT.A friend died of lung cancer-never smoked a cigarette in his life.I think I am a fatalist and a firm believer in whatever helps me get through the day is o.k. by me.Have a female Gyno. friend.She told me that she gathered from conferences that most of the female Gynos. were on HRT and some had been on it for years.Others had weaned off very slowly with no dire consequences.They also mentioned how reluctantly they prescribed it to desperate patients as they didn't want the stigma of the Gyno. who believes in hormones after the latest study which showed minimal increases in Breast Cancer and Clots for women using HRT over 60

I guess what I am trying to say,Robin that in the end we have to be our own Doctors and do what we feel is best for our bodies and lives.Heck,even taking an Asprin can be fatal for some people..

So keep the faith.Look after your furniture!

Blessings
Elizabeth

[joyceveronica]

I agree Round Robin,more needs to be done,but it likely won't happen in time to help us.That is why I started searching for natural ways to help me as well.I do take low dose birth control because at my age(32)and having three kids to take care of the pros outweighed the cons-i am doing much better.I have found some wonderful natural things as well,evening primrose oil has been a major GOD send to me in the past weeks and has put a clamp on my PMS.I was mean all the time,now I feel human and actually smile for no reason!! Magnesium and b vitamins have been a big help as well.But I personally think that you are doing the right thing.Take the HRT,or bios,and enjoy your life-quality of life is a major thing.You will be in my prayers.GOD-bless

Dear 'Lady E'

Bless your heart for taking great care of your children and being so proactive with your health care.Thirty two is too young for constant suffering.

Blessings
Elizabeth

[robin07]

I guess what I am trying to say,Robin that in the end we have to be our own Doctors and do what we feel is best for our bodies and lives.Heck,even taking an Asprin can be fatal for some people..


Elizabeth

You have written so succintly Elisabeth what I was trying to say to RR. We get so many opinions but in the end we have to put on our big girl knickers and make up our own minds. Some days I'd rather be a six year old without a care in the world so making a big decision is enough to blow my peri mind.

[RoundRobin]

Thank you everyone, for your replies and sympathy. Jasminetea: I thought my symptoms were due to fluctations also, but that is not the case. My problems arise, accorrding to 3 different blood tests, to having extremely low levels of estrogen and progesterone.

How does a female body 'adjust' to having practically no hormones? According to Suzanne Somers, hormones are the key to health, long life, youth, everything. She intendes to stay on bios until she dies!

[gevalia]

Robin,

For estrogen to raise your risk for a clot, it has to be taken orally. Period. Clotting factors are made in the liver so all oral estrogen, whether it be bio-identical or synthetic, will be metabolized by the liver, thus raising clotting factors. The only way around this is to use a transdermal delivery system(patches, troches, creams, sublingual drops).
Jaminetea makes an excellent point...Premarin and Prempro both contain equilin estrogen-horse estrogen. It is many times stronger than the 17-beta estradiol, estriol and estrone that our bodies make. No judgement about bioidential hormones can be made based on these studies.
There are a few important distinctions to make when weighing whether to take hrt or not. A distinction between natural and synthetics is necessary as well as the route of delivery the estrogen is delivered. The safest route is transdermal as it doesn't involve the liver and allows for smaller doses. Oral doses need to be 80-90 % higher due to the first pass effect that occurs in the liver.
Good books on this subject are written by Dr. Uzzi Reiss and Dr. Elizabeth Vliet.

[gevalia]

Robin,

For estrogen to raise your risk for a clot, it has to be taken orally. Period. Clotting factors are made in the liver so all oral estrogen, whether it be bio-identical or synthetic, will be metabolized by the liver, thus raising clotting factors. The only way around this is to use a transdermal delivery system(patches, troches, creams, sublingual drops).
Jaminetea makes an excellent point...Premarin and Prempro both contain equilin estrogen-horse estrogen. It is many times stronger than the 17-beta estradiol, estriol and estrone that our bodies make. No judgement about bioidential hormones can be made based on these studies.
There are a few important distinctions to make when weighing whether to take hrt or not. A distinction between natural and synthetics is necessary as well as the route of delivery the estrogen is delivered. The safest route is transdermal as it doesn't involve the liver and allows for smaller doses. Oral doses need to be 80-90 % higher due to the first pass effect that occurs in the liver.
Good books on this subject are written by Dr. Uzzi Reiss and Dr. Elizabeth Vliet.

[gevalia]

Sorry for the double posting

[Floater]

Robin,

My mother has been on hormones for 15 years and she doesn't intend to stop. She is in excellent health, excellent physical shape. She stays on top of all the annual tests and is remarkably healthy for a woman her age. She believes much of her good health is due to the hormones she has been taking. She has the bone density of the 20 something year old woman. Her cholesterol level is always on the low end of normal. She is a poster child for the success of hormones.

I have been taking them myself for almost 10 months. My quality of life has improved dramatically. I am another who is will to shorten my life in exchange for quality of life. I chose to use bio identical hormones, because to me it just makes more sense to use something that is molecularly identical to what the human body produces. I also truly do not believe that synthetic progestins give you the same benefits as progesterone does. My mom tried provera, and it was poison for her...I didn't even bother trying it.

Some people just don't function well without hormones. Some do fine. You apparently don't do so well without them. Life is short Robin, do whatever it takes to feel well, to be happy and be healthy again!!

[gevalia]

* News >
* Boston Globe >
* Health / Science

The Boston Globe
HEALTH ANSWERS
Are estrogen patches, gels safer than pills after menopause?

April 23, 2007

Probably, at least in terms of minimizing the risk of blood clots, according to a new study called ESTHER, published in February in the journal Circulation. The French researchers looked at 271 women ages 45 to 70 with deep vein blood clots and 610 women without, and correlated their risk with whether they used oral forms of hormone therapy, types delivered through the skin, or none at all.

They found that oral hormone users had four-times the risk of blood clots compared with non-hormone users and with those using transdermal preparations.

"The study is important," said Dr. JoAnn Manson, chief of the division of preventive medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston and author of "Hot Flashes, Hormones and Your Health." It adds to the mounting evidence that the route of administration of estrogen matters.

This study did not address whether transdermal estrogen might offset other risks of oral hormone use, such as an increased risk of breast cancer or stroke.

(A different study that looked at hormone pills, not patches, published earlier this month, suggested that starting hormone therapy right at the beginning of menopause does not increase the risk of heart attacks.)

In general, estrogen taken orally passes first through the liver, where it can increase the synthesis of clotting proteins and inflammatory markers and have other effects. The advantage of medications delivered through the skin is that they do not pass through the liver en route to the bloodstream.

A new study called KEEPS is also comparing oral estrogen to the patch as well as evaluating progesterone (Prometrium) to determine the effects of the hormones on plaque in artery walls, memory and cognitive function, blood clotting factors, glucose and lipid levels and other variables. The study (www.keepstudy.org; 617-732-9870) is still recruiting patients who are within three years of the onset of menopause.

JUDY FOREMAN

Please e-mail health questions to foreman@globe.com.

[Lady E]

Dear 'Lady E'

Bless your heart for taking great care of your children and being so proactive with your health care.Thirty two is too young for constant suffering.

Blessings
Elizabeth

Thank you!!:)

[stoneberry]

<snipped>
The circularity of this problem outrages me. We menopausal women, we are the largest population of our age group in the U.S. We are "the baby boomers" (born between 1946-1964.) We're in the workforce in HUGE numbers, we are the first generation to remember and have worked at jobs before the technology revolution (ie I can actually remember when there was no email/ no interent). We are, IMO, the toughest group of women since the pioneers of the old West. The women in my age group that I know are killers. They work full time, raise kids, raise grandkids, pay taxes, take second jobs, support their ailing husband and parents. We may bitch and moan, but we SURVIVE. Hurricanes, floods, cancer, failing economy, depressed spouses, man, we SURVIVE.

And the best that medical science has to offer us is to "procrastinate our symptoms?" Excuse my language, but SCREW THAT.

It is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know where I am going to start my fight, but I'm going to fight...somewhere, somehow. Why AREN'T there any major studies on bioidenticals? Because bios don't line the pockets of big pharma? Why are so many doctors ignorant, ill informed, and JUST DON'T SEEM TO CARE?

We cannot afford to be silent anymore, you guys. Posting here has been life saving for me, but we need to take this to the streets. To our congress people. We need to DEMAND that our doctors learn and recognize what we are going through.

I know...I sound angry and a little crazed. You know why? 'Cause I'm angry, and a little crazed!

We can put a satellite out into space for months, land on the moon, carry computers the size of a battery, and we can't find a safe, effective solution for women going thru the change?

Okay, end of rant.

For now.

Robin!

I am with you all the way on this...Keep Going!

You are on the right track for you and I am not far behind. I mean to kick some axx in a couple of weeks when I have my gyno appt and I have a backup endochronoligist appt in Dec if that one doesn't get me what I want - and I *will* have it.

I believe that I will be more prone to a poor quality of physical and emotional life if I continue without HRT. I have spent (lost) the last 8 years of my life with all kinds of outrageous symptoms that have left me barely functional compared to what I was and am capable of being. I am willing to accept the risks.

Western women cannot fade into the village elder grandmotherly status that we hear about in eastern countries (Japan). Our lives are not the same as our mothers and grandmothers. Our lives and the way we want and have to live them cannot function with menopause. I am tired to being told to reduce my stress level. IT IS Reduced as much as it can be. I have moved heaven and earth to readjust my life.

Your post is one of the best I have seen here and captures my feelings and experiences.

Do whatever you can to find a doctor to work with you and one that is not afraid of HRT. Don't give up. Mental attitude and lack of fear, I believe have a lot to do with how our bodies work and accept treatments - no matter what they are.

[skiergirl]

Hi Robin,
I totally don't agree with your endocrinologist. At the risk of sounding really arrogant, I'm going to say that I think I know more about menopause and hormones and HRT than any doctor I've seen. It's sad to say, but I think we are on our own. Like others have said, if my life is shortened because of my hormones, then I'll accept that. At least it's a good life!

[La*la]

Robin!

I am with you all the way on this...Keep Going!

You are on the right track for you and I am not far behind. I mean to kick some axx in a couple of weeks when I have my gyno appt and I have a backup endochronoligist appt in Dec if that one doesn't get me what I want - and I *will* have it.

I believe that I will be more prone to a poor quality of physical and emotional life if I continue without HRT. I have spent (lost) the last 8 years of my life with all kinds of outrageous symptoms that have left me barely functional compared to what I was and am capable of being. I am willing to accept the risks.

Western women cannot fade into the village elder grandmotherly status that we hear about in eastern countries (Japan). Our lives are not the same as our mothers and grandmothers. Our lives and the way we want and have to live them cannot function with menopause. I am tired to being told to reduce my stress level. IT IS Reduced as much as it can be. I have moved heaven and earth to readjust my life.

Your post is one of the best I have seen here and captures my feelings and experiences.




Do whatever you can to find a doctor to work with you and one that is not afraid of HRT. Don't give up. Mental attitude and lack of fear, I believe have a lot to do with how our bodies work and accept treatments - no matter what they are.

I agree completely...

Go Robin !!!

Its a job keeping my mental attitude in check...so that I might pursue better options. The Meno crazies presents a loathsome foundation for advocating/searching out the best treatments...

I will get my eye on this thread...

[RoundRobin]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the support more than you know. I've just spent the entire night WIDE AWAKE. Every time I close my eyes and even try to sleep, I have a panic attack.

And I worked a long hard day Friday...I did a client presentation in the morning, drove in blinding rain to another employee presentation, then spent the whole afternoon at a day care center, enrolling the employees in their new benefits. The place smelled like diapers and I left there with pelvic cramps, a headache and feeling like I was going to pass out. DH and I went to dinner...and I made the HUGE mistake a having restaurant food. Sure enough, within 2 hours of eating, I felt sick. What's going on with restaurants these days? Is it me, or is the food just awful everywhere?

One week on HRT and I don't feel any better...in fact, I'm worse. I'm getting daily migraines (thinking of you, Karen!), and itching all over. Sigh. I'm going to stick it out, though, and try and take the whole 28 days. From what I hear, it takes 2 weeks for the positive effects of HRT to kick in. Then I'm starting the bios, which arrived yesterday from Bellevue.

skiergirl, thank you for saying you don't agree with my endo. Now that I think of it, her lifestyle leaves a lot to be desired. She works 12 hour days, is constantly backed up, and well, frankly, doeesn't look like she takes care of herself.

I will admit that I'm scared. I keep worrying I'll get a blood clot...so I'm taking daily aspirin and trying to be as active as possible. If the HRT doesn't work, girls, I don't know how I will keep going on with my life. Something will have to give. The sleep deprivation and hot flashes are slowly killing me, and I don't think I'm being dramatic. Ok, maybe the flashes can't kill me, but I cannot keep working full time on little to no sleep.

I'll probably do a sleep study...or contact a doctor who speciliazes in insomnia.

sorry for babbling..I've been up so long now, I'm seeing double. But my brain will not sleep. This is just maddening.

[gevalia]

Sorry to hear about your sleepless night. I have had many myself since starting menopause. I know you are trying to tough it out for the 28 days, but if you continue to feel bad, maybe you could ask Pete how he feels about stopping the Prempro cold turkey and starting the bio's. Not everyone can tolerate Prempro.

[kar4242]

Robin,

I was so hoping you would be getting more sleep. I'm still confused about "oral" vs "transdermal" HRT.....from reading above, transdermal can cause blood clots too...or did I read that wrong.

Wishing you get some success with the HRT Robin....praying for you.

Hugs,
Karen

[NiteOwl]

Karen - The ESTHER study showed that women using estradiol gel or patches had NO increase in blood clots compared to women using no hormones at all.

[springsjean]

Roundrobin, it sounds to me like your anxiety is through the roof. I am on HRT patch and still have problems with out of control anxiety which leads to every other symptom there is. I have succumbed to taking the ativan the ER gave me to try and get some good days in and possibly everything will settle down. Give the bios a little more time but dont' be afraid to seek something to calm the anxiety. You really need a rest from your mind worrying about everything. When taken in small doses, they can be extremely helpful. My heart goes out to you. best of luck.

[RoundRobin]

That's the scary part...I am taking anti-anxiety meds. They are having absolutely no effect on me. I'm taking double and triple the dose I should and it's like I'm eating sugar pills.

[jasminetea]

That's the scary part...I am taking anti-anxiety meds. They are having absolutely no effect on me. I'm taking double and triple the dose I should and it's like I'm eating sugar pills.

I wonder if this could be exacerbating the problem at this point - there is a phenomenon called tolerance withdrawal where you build up tolerance to increasing dosages until you start experiencing withdrawal symptoms like insomnia, high anxiety and seizures, even without missing any doses. Don't try to quit cold turkey though - very, very gradual tapering under a doctor's care would be needed, if this is what's happening.

[gevalia]

The conclusion reached after the Esther study ended was that oral hormones raise the risks of blood clots 4 times over non-hormone users and transdermal hormone users. That puts transdermal users in the same group as non hormone users...no increase risk in clots as long as the method is transdermal.

The KEEPS study will be the one to watch for as it will look at oral estrogen, estrogen patches and prometrium's effect on glucose, lipids, blood-clotting factors,
elasticity of artery walls, memory and cognition. I am not sure when the study concludes but I am guessing it probably won't be for two years or more.

[RoundRobin]

jasminetea: I don't take the anti-anxiety meds every day. It's Clonopin that I have...and I use it maybe once or twice a week. Except it isn't working at all anymore. Pretty much nothing is. But my sleeping meds are a different story. I do use those every night. They're prescribed, but I have definitely developed a tolerance. Great. Another problem to deal with. Oh well...I'll start a tapering regime I guess...(I heard you can use sandpaper to 'file down' your pills a tiny bit each day...)